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Topic: need speaker advice.. - Page: 1

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Hello everyone
i been offered to do my old high school's homecoming but i feel like my current speakers will not be sufficient for the event. i bought them from craigslist a while back, and i been using them for house parties mostly. The guy that sold them to me told me he bought them in ebay, but he never got to use them how he wanted them. Theyre Pro Audio, 300 rms each, 122dB/watt, 12'' driver. They sound pretty good, and look.work like new, although i bet jbl or peavey would sound better. Anyways my question is, should i spend my money on a powered subwoofer with a passive crossover, or get me two more speakers?? my main concern is the crowd just not feeling the music from the lack of power. what should i do??
 

Posted Fri 12 Aug 11 @ 3:57 pm
Is this a one time deal or will you be doing this size event again multiple times in the future?

If it is a one time thing you may want to look into renting speakers

What type of venue is the Homecoming in? Gym, Cafeteria ( lower ceilings), event hall, other...?

How many people will be attending?

All of these will determine how much sound output you will need and greatly alter any recommendations you will get.

I can't imagine a homecoming without seperate Subs if the tops are only 12" speakers.

Honestly it sounds like you bit off a big chunk more than your current equipment can handle and in my experience - unless your school has a very small number of students - the type of system needed for a school dance would be a significant upgrade from what you have now.

Not a knock in any way - it is great to see you stepping up to the plate with for this opportunity. Just be realistic because this could be a chance for you to be either a hometown hero DJ and really get your name out or a dud that will set you back - but there is no better way to learn than by doing.

Good luck and I am sure you will get plenty of good guidance from this forum :)
 

i will probably will be doin this event again in the future, maybe get booked for prom if i do a good enough job.. but by the looks of it it will be some feat to accomplish...
its a gym, but its not too big (slightly bigger than a basketball court with maybe 15 feet more each side for benches. they usually put 8-12 tables around a 60x40 area/dancefloor) im guessing around 150 to 200, no more than that
i figured that i would need a significant upgrade, but now im feel a bit scared to take on such a challenge... what would be the smart thing to do?? i dont want to seem unprofessional in my work and end up the laughing stock of the school...
 

Ok this is a smaller school then so more likely you will be able to handle it - my HS homecoming had about 800 - 1000 people at it - something like that would be a whole different ball game. :)

Volume levels tend to be higher for school dances compared to events like wedding receptions. While it may not seem like a huge room a basketball court is actually pretty big to fill with sound. Once you put tables, decorations and people into a space that size the sound get gobbled up almost by magic ;) I am not trying to scare you just laying out the basic physics of what you are up against.

Do you know the model number of your current speakers? Are they self powered or do you have an amp? What brand and model of Amp?

The 12" speakers you have now would probably be OK for the tops as long as you cross them over at around 100hz - most subs have a high pass output that you can run to tops.

what you will need is probably 2 subs - in that size event I would go with 18" subs.

Since this is not an every month type event for you I would suggest you look for a place locally you could rent your subs from. Self powered subs would be best.

Don't feel bad - a lot of people rent subs for larger events when they are starting out until they make enough to buy their own. Good powered subs cost $1,000+ each so it can take a while to get that kind of cash together.

I would talk to your administration or teachers and see if there is a time you could bring your current equipment up after school one day to set up and see if you feel comfortable with your equipment being able to fill the space without pushing it's limits. The sooner the better.


If for any reason you don't feel comfortable talk it through with the administration. don't sell yourself short but also be realistic.

Again best of luck :)
 

to answer your question, they are podium pro audio pp1203A, self powered speakers.
i found a deal for just one sub at a local shop. its used but they told me it works. its self powered at 1200watts max for $180. is that a good buy??

so to close this thread, subs vs more speakers, subs win??

and THANK YOU so much for your help. being my first big gig im pretty spooked, but your advice really helps
 

Most people will only use 2 top speakers for most events spaced about 15 feet apart - and you will want part of the room to have low enough volume when you walk away from the dance floor so they can have a conversation without yelling and if there will be a photographer set up in the back corner they wont want to have to yell at people to get the pictures taken.

Taking that all into account you don't need more tops.

12" speakers will not have near enough punch for bass for a school dance in that large of an area, and too much bass can damage speakers that size so it is best to only send mids and highs to them over 100hz.


After looking up the model number those should be perfectly fine for the tops - "Pro Audio" has a vast range of speakers they sell some of which are total crap but the models you have seem to be some of the nicer ones they make.

Is that $180 to purchase the sub? Find out the brand and model - that seems awefully cheap - I would never buy second hand speakers without hearing them first so make sure they hook it up or you.

No need to close this thread - it might encompass a little more than the original question but that is Ok
 

i see what youre saying. Im glad i dont need more tops, and at least mine seem to be halfway decent by what youre sayin =]

and yeah its $180 for the sub. its technical pro 12'' powered sub with 1200watts max output. the guy has the manual to it. it says it has a 30Hz - 300Hz frequency response, 3'' voice coil, 90oz magnet with 102+/- 2dB sensitivity. i went to hear it today and it seems to thump just as if it was new, it just has a nasty scratch on the side and a slightly dented grill near a top corner. what do you make of it??

now a slightly different question that has been bugging me for a while... i been wanting to upgrade my set up for a while now. i have 2 dns1200 and a dnx120. ive come to love my little denons, but after using my friends ns7, i fell in love =]
then comes the ns6 (and pio ddj-t1) and well i can only say that i more than want that sweet controller. should i sell my set up to get me the new, more mobile set up or just keep mine?? of course i wouldnt get it next month, but somewhere before xmas.... suggestions??
 

As far as the controller goes it is really a personal decision. The Denons are perfectly fine CDJ's the NS7 is an awesome controller - have not used the NS6 but hear it is really nice too. The biggest thing to think about for me personally would be what happens of your laptop or controller goes out during a gig? With the CDJ's you have backup capability - if one goes bad you can still use the other and if the laptop dies you can still use CD's to finish the night. Having an always available backup is one thing that separates beginners from pros.

If you don't already burn your top 100 songs onto CD and keep a list of what is on them so you are always ready just in case. Personally I bring about 300 CD's with me in a travel case to every event just in case. It doesn't take a lot of space and hopefully you never have to use them but the time you do you will be glad you have them.

I also bring an Ipod with a decent amount of my collection but it takes time to transition to the Ipod and that short amount of time can destroy your dance floor - with the CD's you can keep one mix loaded in each player all the time and just push the button to switch from MIDI controller to CD in a few seconds.

If you want to look for something you can put in 1 case instead of 3 there are 2 new controllers with built in CDj ability coming out soon. The Gemini CDMP7000 and the Numark Mixtrack Quad

If you do sell the Denons and go for just a controller at least have some kind of backup available - you could start a whole new thread to find out what people like to use for backups.


As for the sub - that is a home theater sub and not a PA or DJ type subwoofer. The power rating is exaggerated. I am sure if you put that and any reasonable 15" or 18" DJ sub next to each other you would immediately realize the difference. Think about it - you don't want your tops and subs producing overlapping frequencies so why would you have a sub that is the same size as your tops? If you are running 12" tops you should run 18" subs. This combined with the built in crossovers will keep them from creating interference with each other.

You say it has 102DB SPL - most DJ subs are 125 ->135 That is a huge difference especially in a big room.


I would keep the Denons and use any money you would have spent on the NS7 on getting at least one decent sub. Good sound will get you more gigs than a tricked out controller.

We all get the itch for new stuff but your set up is not broke or crap so there is really no need to fix or change it right now. Use it to make some cash and have fun for a while there will always be cool new stuff coming out to blow your wad on later ;)


I would look for a place you can rent a good sub from for the homecoming and maybe try to buy one for the next dance if they ask you back.

JBL 18" PRX618XLF are usually available from rental places or a QSC KW181 Either one of those would be good to look at and are popular with rental places
 

good point you make there.. i was thinking of getting an ndx800 as back up for the ns6, but i think that would be too much to carry to a gig.. maybe i should just save for some pio's.. everyone tells me theyre the best, anything else is just a toy.

and thnx for the advice! i keep two flashdrives (32gb cruzers) as my main sources od music, and two 16gb PNY as back ups. Then i have two 8gb PNY's to back up my back up with the top top songs. still cds would be a good back up^3

i always have all my music in my 64gb touch and i carry a RCA to 3.5mm just in case =]

i looked into the mixdeck quad, but it seems lacking in effects... idk what to do. should i switch from my denon set up to a Numark ndx800 with perhaps an m6 or m9 mixer??

and as for the subs ill definitely bear all of that in mind.. quite a bit of food for thought =]
so i definitely need a couple 18'' 's with 125+ spl??

and sorry for the barrage of questions, there arent many dj's in my town that are willing to lend a helping hand in teaching the tools of this beautiful trade that is djing =[
so i thank you immensily for helpin me make these tough decisions! =]
 

To keep this simple, I'm only going to talk about your upcoming event. How old are the people you are performing for? Your concern should be filling the dance floor with sound, not the whole gym. Depending on the height of the ceiling, they will hear it anyway. There may also be a large echo effect. If you are a mixer, you will need to take steps to overcome that, like a small monitor.
 



Warning! off topic rant - for answer to question about subwoofer skip this section ;)
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Honestly I am not the best person to ask about controllers if you use a lot of effects and samples I don't really do that kind of DJ'ing as much as some other folks. I am more of a special events person mostly weddings, holiday parties charity events etc.... I do some bars but not the kind of places where scratching and mixing are the main priority. For me reliability and being able to keep the show going no matter what is what I need.

Like I said though - your setup right now is perfectly fine - I would not worry about it too much unless you really feel like it is slowing your progress down as a DJ. My best DJ friend has a setup very similar to yours that he has been using for the last 5 years without problems and he gets $1000+ a gig for his mobile events and had a running friday night residency for 6 years at a one of the most popular bars in the city - While not a huge town Downtown Cincinnati where he was playing still has a Metro population of 2-1/2 million people and this particular place was the favorite hangout for a lot of the guys that play on our professional sports teams.

PS- they always used VDJ so they could mix videos on the 20 or so flat panels and 2 projector walls.

Basically it is the DJ that makes the show and the music they choose not the controller. It is easy for us to get really into the showmanship of DJ'ing but most of the time the crowd just wants good music and a decent mix - the clubs where the DJ is a rock star are few and far between because most people have no appreciation of the skill that kind of mixing and scratching takes. If you can get into a place like that more power to you. :)


Also I want to apologize as I think I underestimated you - I went back and reread your post and you said "old HS" I originally missed the "old" and had been assuming this whole time that you were still a student. Sorry if anything I said was condescending but I thought you were like 17 and this was one of your first gigs. Sounds like you have a little more experience than I was giving you credit for. :)

I carry 4 16GB flash drives and two 160gb USB hard drives on top of the CD's and Ipod. Actually did part of my St. patrick's day set off the Flash drives when I had a problem with my laptop. - love flash drives but they are hard as hell to navigate with the tiny LCD screens that CDJ's have :(

Also I am a little old school because the guy that taught me most of what I know doesn't even own a laptop to this day does his entire set with CD's - And by doesn't own a laptop I mean doesn't use a computer for anything in his life. Yeah he is own of those :) but he can stilll kill a dance floor and does a heck of a job with Vinyl when he gets the chance.

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Wow I got kind of off topic but back to the real question about subs:

As far as Subs go here are a few that seem to get good reviews all the time. You may be able to get away with just 1 sub for now as long as it is a good one. I only use 1 sub but most of my events are in spaces smaller than a Gym or require less volume and thump than a school dance.

For less than $1,000

The Electrovoice ELX118P gets great reviews - a lot of the newer EV self powered products have really blown people away for the price point. You can get 1 for a decent price and you can get 2 for about what 1 high end Sub would cost and have a lot more output.

Around $1000
JBL PRX618S a work horse of the DJ industry.
Mackie HD1801


Over $1000
JBL PRX618XLF A step up from the standard 618
QSC KW181 Reliable, versatile, relatively light.



If I was in your place I would probably go with the EV sub - 134 SPL - 700w reliable built in amp - only 70lbs ! most subs are closer to 100lbs.

One thing about the EV though is they do not have a built in crossover so you would need to remember to turn down the bass on your tops, luckily your speakers have an EQ built into the back that makes that easy :)
 

@ AMAHM I was beginning to wonder of anybody else could see this thread . Felt like I was just chatting with the OP at pub over beers.
 

Speakers i would avoid buying is the EV elx 115p. Alot people buy them because they are cheap for the price and just suck it in saying they are good. The JBls Prx 615m is the way to go. They sound better with bass and warmer with detail. A very good affordable Powered sub that i recomend because i heard it side by side to the QSC KW181 is the Harbinger Hp118s.. Its very good and it pumps deep bass.
 

@ caliente -I saw a while back you bought the EV tops - I was specifically talking about the subs as the OP has tops that will be good enough to get him through for a while. when you bought your ELX115's did you get a chance to compare the subs? There are several youtube comparisons between the EV, JBL, and QSC where people love the EV for the price but a first hand opinion from a respected forum member would go a long way further than online reviews.
 

The speakers i bought where the Qsc k12s. I sold them and i now have the JBL Prx 615m. I did hear the Ev sub but the Harbinger sounds better. I spent days going back n forth listtenning to the Ev Elx 115p and the Jbl Prx 615ms.. I liked the price of the Evs but the sound wasn't satisfying.. The Ev's scream loud but with a flat sound. The Jbls are more expensive but the sound is better. I paid 670 each for mine brand new.
 

Yeah the PRX600 series really stepped it up from the 500 series. I thought you were the guy that had QSC and replaced them with the EV. After further review it was DJ City. Sorry for the mix up.

And the Harbinger is $100 less :)
 

No Problem.. In that post your talking about, I was thinking about buying the Evs because i read alot of good reviews. When i heard them, I was like.. WT& ? I heard them in manys ways side by side with other speakers. The store salesman was even dropping 100 bucks for each speaker. The Evs sound the way they do because it doesnt have No DSP processing or DBX, Its just a Raw sound.
 

@AMAHM
most of them are 1418, with the exception of the few teachers and security guards. my mainconcer is the people not feeling the music due to the lack of low frequency.. and ive never thought about a monitor (i thought only clubs/ large venues used them) since the speakers are always relatively close to me. seems that its nother item to add to the list!
also, what do you mean a mixer?? like i like to do long mixing between songs?? that completely threw me off lol

@jbart
just to clarify matters i in no way feel underestimated. Im only 19, not too far from 17 lol =]
ive only been djing for 6-7 months, so im in no way experienced lol im just barely touching the tip of this multi-layered iceberg called djing. Im just dying to reach the furthest depths of it, but only time will tell.

the main thing about me wanting to upgrade my set up is that while im playing musicm i have many ideas of remixing the trac on the go, but my denon seem quite a bit restricting with their lack of multiple hot cues and stand alone effetcs.. ive thought of adding software with dicers to my set up, even upgrading my mixer to someting like a dnx1700 or djm800 or something of the sort (pricey i kno, so my budget kinda restricts my choices there) but idk..

and i totally agree with you on the flashdrives- they are a true nuisance when it comes to scrolling for music. dont get me wrong, when i see the quantity of vinyl some djs take to their shows, i much rather take a handfull of drives and play off that (kudos to all dj's who still spin and carry their vinyls to their events. i mean absolutely no offense by my personal preference of music format)

back to the subject- the ELX118P's look awesome! but i must say id rather get my hands (or should i say ears lol) on the jbls. question: should i just save money for a couple of months and try to get the mackies or QSC? i just dont want to be selling and buying equipment over and over again. i kno ill have to, but i dont want to make it a habit, you know what i mean?
since djing has been getting me through college, ive become rather wary of what i buy, and i dont want to spend $700 knowing that for $150 more i could have gotten more professional equipment.

again tho, THNX so much for all the info on EVERYTHING! it has really enlightened me and i just hope that with the help of this awesome forum and its equally awesome members i can become the dj i want to be =]
 

What type of amp will I need to power 2 PV215's and PV118 Subwoofer
 

Personally I use all QSC speakers and love them. At the same price point the JBL PRX6xx series are pretty awesome too and a little bit lighter.

Caliente made a great suggestion - the Harbinger 18" powered sub @ $700 HP118S If he says it is good believe him!

As far as monitors go you might be amazed at how different the sound is based on your positioning. It will tend to be very bass heavy at your DJ table because the mids and high frequencies are more directional and pointed away from you. A small monitor like a QSC K8 will let you hear the mids and highs better at the booth and give you more precise vocals in order to time your drops or mixing.
 

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