thetracker510
Thats what I'm talkin about bro...besides what good for her,its good for me...
....he,he......
....he,he......
Posted Sun 27 Mar 11 @ 11:03 am
FireText
@thetracker510 nice taste! M17x is awesome, I've got it for this last 2 years and counting... I can say no more than great things about this beast ;) enjoy your lappy! worst part? too heavy for an old man back :( but what the hell! you open that piece and everybody look at you with some little envy :) haha!
Posted Sun 27 Mar 11 @ 12:55 pm
wallter
Well, tracker... If there is an option to choose only one of two items placed on that picture for free... What would you do??? And no, the flowers are not included...
Posted Sun 27 Mar 11 @ 3:14 pm
thetracker510
You know it !...he,he..
Posted Sun 27 Mar 11 @ 6:03 pm
wallter
Temporary comparision table for VDJ flash plugins (28.03.2011.)
Support - Firetext - Pangolin
*.swf - yes - yes
*.flv - yes - yes
*.avi - yes - no
looping - yes - yes
alpha transparency - yes - yes
full preview - yes - picture
playlist - no - yes
ext. add-on's (xml) - yes - no
adjustments - yes - yes
swf mikdrops - yes - no
price - free - unknown
As for an neutral NLU demo user, these are the options I could check. One developer is on VDJ scene for a longer time, the other one had enough time to come through. As far as I know, some more options will be added for both of them, but time will tell. This stuff is for advanced users, ready to go further. If your hearts melts when someone mentioned 'Atomix MP3', maybe this is not the right thread for you.
Support - Firetext - Pangolin
*.swf - yes - yes
*.flv - yes - yes
*.avi - yes - no
looping - yes - yes
alpha transparency - yes - yes
full preview - yes - picture
playlist - no - yes
ext. add-on's (xml) - yes - no
adjustments - yes - yes
swf mikdrops - yes - no
price - free - unknown
As for an neutral NLU demo user, these are the options I could check. One developer is on VDJ scene for a longer time, the other one had enough time to come through. As far as I know, some more options will be added for both of them, but time will tell. This stuff is for advanced users, ready to go further. If your hearts melts when someone mentioned 'Atomix MP3', maybe this is not the right thread for you.
Posted Mon 28 Mar 11 @ 6:08 am
Don Moir
This is just to set the record straight. I am being as fair and accurate as possible. I tested on a Win7 quad and an XP dual.
swf transparency
Firetext.... color key only which makes it impossible if you don't know the exact color... also produces ragged edges and other undesirable effects
Essential Flash.... complete native SWF transparency and semi transparency - produces very smooth and clean edges - you don't have do anything like a color key.
SWF output
Firetext.... stretched bitmap to size of VDJ video depending on the size of the movie you choose in robot. Can be pixelated unless you constantly change the movie size in robot and this can also lead to undesirable effects like image can be distorted etc.
Essential Flash.... automatically computes size and has high quality vector output - no pixelation
FLV support
Firetext.... NO
Essential Flash....YES with native FLV alpha channel support
AVI support
Firetext - I tested 3 AVI files and neither worked on my Win7 or XP machines but they work everywhere else
Essential Flash - AVI is not a flash format and we are talking about Flash here
Milkdrop support
Firetext.... NO - Wallter if you are saying Firetext supports Milkdrop because you can see flashoid in the preview window, this means nothing. While I could see Flashoid in the preview of robot it only displayed the UI in the VDJ window. (More explaination below)
Essential Flash.... While it does not support the milkdrop files at this time, It sends the VDJ sound samples directly to an SWF that is designed to receive them. I just have not had the time to put up a demo of this. Also I am massaging the sound data to make this as easy as possible. Essential Flash also supports several other VDJ parameters to an SWF like beat posiition, song title, song author etc.
Milkdrop or other similiar music visualizations are intended to display visual effects based on the currently playing music. SWF files can only display sound visualizations from music that is played within the SWF. It cannot get sound data from external sources like VDJ or just any sound played on your computer. So you could get an SWF that produces visualization based on its internal sound in either plugin. Flashoid has a UI and I don't think you want that displayed on the screen. Essential Flash passes the sound data that is playing in VDJ to the SWF so complete milkdrop like support is possible in EF. It just depends on the SWF.
Interface
Firetext.... awkward and you need to run an external program
Essential Flash.... intuitive and runs natively within VDJ - similiar to clipbank with a few more bells and whistles.
Some other notes
On my Win7 quad, when running an SWF in Firetext, it caused the entire computer to pause frequently not just VDJ. In VDJ all other plugins where effected to the point it was not usable on my Win7 quad which is very fast machine. On the XP machine I did not see this behavior but in Firetext CPU usage was higher than same SWF played in Essentail Flash. EF had no problem on either machine.
Generally speaking the display quality is much higher in Essential Flash than Firetext.
Some SWF's did not display properly in Firetext. Wallter you can take the discoball.swf you handed out and will see that ball is all the way to the right and clipped off. But no SWF will display with real alpha transparency in Firetext.
If the SWF has sound in it, in Firetext the sound plays twice at the same time. Both in robot and VDJ. In Essential Flash the sound only plays once which is expected and you can mute the sound.
If you find anything that I said here as being inaccurate I will change any part of this if it turns out I was wrong. But Wallters information was not accurate. There are alot of things I left out and just trying to keep to the main points. There are reasons the Firetext plugin is free and Essential Flash is not but this is a choice you will need to make for yourself. I strongly recommend you test both programs completely.
Don
swf transparency
Firetext.... color key only which makes it impossible if you don't know the exact color... also produces ragged edges and other undesirable effects
Essential Flash.... complete native SWF transparency and semi transparency - produces very smooth and clean edges - you don't have do anything like a color key.
SWF output
Firetext.... stretched bitmap to size of VDJ video depending on the size of the movie you choose in robot. Can be pixelated unless you constantly change the movie size in robot and this can also lead to undesirable effects like image can be distorted etc.
Essential Flash.... automatically computes size and has high quality vector output - no pixelation
FLV support
Firetext.... NO
Essential Flash....YES with native FLV alpha channel support
AVI support
Firetext - I tested 3 AVI files and neither worked on my Win7 or XP machines but they work everywhere else
Essential Flash - AVI is not a flash format and we are talking about Flash here
Milkdrop support
Firetext.... NO - Wallter if you are saying Firetext supports Milkdrop because you can see flashoid in the preview window, this means nothing. While I could see Flashoid in the preview of robot it only displayed the UI in the VDJ window. (More explaination below)
Essential Flash.... While it does not support the milkdrop files at this time, It sends the VDJ sound samples directly to an SWF that is designed to receive them. I just have not had the time to put up a demo of this. Also I am massaging the sound data to make this as easy as possible. Essential Flash also supports several other VDJ parameters to an SWF like beat posiition, song title, song author etc.
Milkdrop or other similiar music visualizations are intended to display visual effects based on the currently playing music. SWF files can only display sound visualizations from music that is played within the SWF. It cannot get sound data from external sources like VDJ or just any sound played on your computer. So you could get an SWF that produces visualization based on its internal sound in either plugin. Flashoid has a UI and I don't think you want that displayed on the screen. Essential Flash passes the sound data that is playing in VDJ to the SWF so complete milkdrop like support is possible in EF. It just depends on the SWF.
Interface
Firetext.... awkward and you need to run an external program
Essential Flash.... intuitive and runs natively within VDJ - similiar to clipbank with a few more bells and whistles.
Some other notes
On my Win7 quad, when running an SWF in Firetext, it caused the entire computer to pause frequently not just VDJ. In VDJ all other plugins where effected to the point it was not usable on my Win7 quad which is very fast machine. On the XP machine I did not see this behavior but in Firetext CPU usage was higher than same SWF played in Essentail Flash. EF had no problem on either machine.
Generally speaking the display quality is much higher in Essential Flash than Firetext.
Some SWF's did not display properly in Firetext. Wallter you can take the discoball.swf you handed out and will see that ball is all the way to the right and clipped off. But no SWF will display with real alpha transparency in Firetext.
If the SWF has sound in it, in Firetext the sound plays twice at the same time. Both in robot and VDJ. In Essential Flash the sound only plays once which is expected and you can mute the sound.
If you find anything that I said here as being inaccurate I will change any part of this if it turns out I was wrong. But Wallters information was not accurate. There are alot of things I left out and just trying to keep to the main points. There are reasons the Firetext plugin is free and Essential Flash is not but this is a choice you will need to make for yourself. I strongly recommend you test both programs completely.
Don
Posted Mon 28 Mar 11 @ 8:59 am
wallter
As I consider myself as an neutral person, I'm glad you're here to defend your work. Also, I don't want to be presented as an liar, as long as I don't have anything in my pocket from all this stuff.
AVI in FT VDJ Robot plugin - when you're importing movies, there are options: 'all supported files' and 'all files'. The second one will give you avi's. See here:
[link removed]
FLV in FT VDJ Robot plugin - supported, I don't understand why you wrote it's not...
SWF Milkdrops - As far as I can see it in FT VDJ Robot's window, it works for me. Solution for this is on it's way, there's an FLA file on surgery desk, some connections had to go to cut. I've been asking users for help, but only one person was willing to do it. So, that person will finally decide about how it will be available for VDJ users.
I don't want to go to 'about quality' or 'about better transparency' stuff. Everyone can see for himself. I took some time to compare it, some users could give their opinnions, too.
AVI in FT VDJ Robot plugin - when you're importing movies, there are options: 'all supported files' and 'all files'. The second one will give you avi's. See here:
[link removed]
FLV in FT VDJ Robot plugin - supported, I don't understand why you wrote it's not...
SWF Milkdrops - As far as I can see it in FT VDJ Robot's window, it works for me. Solution for this is on it's way, there's an FLA file on surgery desk, some connections had to go to cut. I've been asking users for help, but only one person was willing to do it. So, that person will finally decide about how it will be available for VDJ users.
I don't want to go to 'about quality' or 'about better transparency' stuff. Everyone can see for himself. I took some time to compare it, some users could give their opinnions, too.
Posted Mon 28 Mar 11 @ 9:51 am
Don Moir
Hi Wallter, in no way am I presenting you as a liar. Just saying your information was not accurtate. Like I cannot play FLV files in Firetext and you stated it could... Lets just say it was an oversight and s*** happens.
I know how to load an avi file in Firetext, it just does not display on my 2 machines... I tried with 3 different avi files. Glad it works for you.
Again with milkdrop, an SWF cannot get external sound data. It can only get sound data that is played within the SWF. So this is sad state of affairs here and it cannot display visualizations from VDJ unless special handling is in place. Essential Flash paases the sound data from whatever is playing in VDJ to the SWF and this is what you want. Is it not ?
For me it's all about quality.
Don
I know how to load an avi file in Firetext, it just does not display on my 2 machines... I tried with 3 different avi files. Glad it works for you.
Again with milkdrop, an SWF cannot get external sound data. It can only get sound data that is played within the SWF. So this is sad state of affairs here and it cannot display visualizations from VDJ unless special handling is in place. Essential Flash paases the sound data from whatever is playing in VDJ to the SWF and this is what you want. Is it not ?
For me it's all about quality.
Don
Posted Mon 28 Mar 11 @ 10:11 am
wallter
Again with milkdrop, an SWF cannot get external sound data. It can only get sound data that is played within the SWF. So this is sad state of affairs here and it cannot display visualizations from VDJ unless special handling is in place.
Well, it can... over XML connections. That's how it works already, but now this XML has to be addressed to local folder with milkdrops and to be connected with the sound from soundcard. There are other options with pictures and web camera, but it's too confusing for these mixing guys.
Well, it can... over XML connections. That's how it works already, but now this XML has to be addressed to local folder with milkdrops and to be connected with the sound from soundcard. There are other options with pictures and web camera, but it's too confusing for these mixing guys.
Posted Mon 28 Mar 11 @ 10:27 am
Don Moir
So you are happy with playing only sound files from xml list ? Yes these are extenal references to mp3 files or whatever and they will still be played from within the SWF but my point is that you want to display visualizations for the sounds that are playing in VDJ, because thats where the main music will be played. This requires special handling which is supported by Essential Flash.
Don
Don
Posted Mon 28 Mar 11 @ 10:34 am
wallter
Don, you're twisting my words... I clearly said swf WOULD be connected to react to sound from PC's soundcard. VDJ uses PC's soundcard to deliver the sound, there's no special VDJ soundcard within the software. Please, stick to your thread and give those mates some price, you're only confusing stuff. I would like to make some video mixes with your plugin, but I can't. It's showing adds every couple seconds, so useless for me. It can't show external data for my stuff, so useless for me. Now I'm using FT VDJ Robot, cause it's available as an working demo and it's ok for me. I'm an educated and polite man, so don't push me...
And see here, transparent flv in FT VDJ Robot: [link removed]
Jeez, this should be the place for sharing stuff for use in flash plugins, I don't want to defend one from other's lies. Get serious...
And see here, transparent flv in FT VDJ Robot: [link removed]
Jeez, this should be the place for sharing stuff for use in flash plugins, I don't want to defend one from other's lies. Get serious...
Posted Mon 28 Mar 11 @ 11:07 am
Don Moir
Hi Walter,
I hope you get the milkdrop support to work in the way you intend it. And really I hope you can prove me wrong with the milkdrop stuff. Can you clearify what the XML connection will be connecting to ? An external program ? As far as I know, I don't think VDJ provides for this but I could be wrong. Whatever the case may be here, and whatever is you do wallter with the SWF or ActionScript its a simple matter for Essential Flash to send the sound samples rather than XML I almost was going to post that information to you so you could play with it but just didn't have the time to document it for you... Not sure what flashoid expects for sound samples either. I have the FFT but I am looking to clean that up better so its easier to work with.
Really we put up a beta version of the plugin so you could test it out as it was not complete so what do you expect ?
We are hoping to have it available for sale this week and at a reasonable price.
I have tried to keep post to your thread on subject, but my only intent was to correct some of your information.
Also I stated that FLV files do not work in the Firetext plugin... The reason I make this statement is because FLV file is not listed as one of movie types and even when I open one using all files... they do not display on either of my machines... Does it work for you ?
Don
I hope you get the milkdrop support to work in the way you intend it. And really I hope you can prove me wrong with the milkdrop stuff. Can you clearify what the XML connection will be connecting to ? An external program ? As far as I know, I don't think VDJ provides for this but I could be wrong. Whatever the case may be here, and whatever is you do wallter with the SWF or ActionScript its a simple matter for Essential Flash to send the sound samples rather than XML I almost was going to post that information to you so you could play with it but just didn't have the time to document it for you... Not sure what flashoid expects for sound samples either. I have the FFT but I am looking to clean that up better so its easier to work with.
Really we put up a beta version of the plugin so you could test it out as it was not complete so what do you expect ?
We are hoping to have it available for sale this week and at a reasonable price.
I have tried to keep post to your thread on subject, but my only intent was to correct some of your information.
Also I stated that FLV files do not work in the Firetext plugin... The reason I make this statement is because FLV file is not listed as one of movie types and even when I open one using all files... they do not display on either of my machines... Does it work for you ?
Don
Posted Mon 28 Mar 11 @ 11:27 am
wallter
Well, there it is, above your post... God, now I'm waiting for Beatbreaker to get into the ring... and then if FT guys let their dogs out on the yard... let's quote one wise man about climbing on his yellow bus of not thinking about it and get out of here for a while... ;-)
Posted Mon 28 Mar 11 @ 12:28 pm
djcel
Come on Don.
Comparison is always dangereous and that's why you should let users have their own feelings of both plugins. ;-)
Comparison is always dangereous and that's why you should let users have their own feelings of both plugins. ;-)
Posted Mon 28 Mar 11 @ 12:38 pm
Don Moir
Ok wallter,
Then we can state that FLV and AVI files work in the Firetext plugin on some machines, just not mine. And curious why its not listed as a supported file type. I can only report what my experience is.
I am pretty easy going myself wallter and also very polite. I edited the info about milkdrop in my previous post... not sure you read it or not but this is an area I am interested in and I as you asked for help on that I could help provided I can find the time and I will eventually.
Then we can state that FLV and AVI files work in the Firetext plugin on some machines, just not mine. And curious why its not listed as a supported file type. I can only report what my experience is.
I am pretty easy going myself wallter and also very polite. I edited the info about milkdrop in my previous post... not sure you read it or not but this is an area I am interested in and I as you asked for help on that I could help provided I can find the time and I will eventually.
Posted Mon 28 Mar 11 @ 12:40 pm
Don Moir
Sorry djcel,
But it was not me who started drawing comparsions. There were some statements made about somethings being free and some not as though they are somehow equivalent as well as wallters statement.
But I totally agree with you and I hate this kind of thing. I remained silent on the issue till now and it just got to me.
Don
But it was not me who started drawing comparsions. There were some statements made about somethings being free and some not as though they are somehow equivalent as well as wallters statement.
But I totally agree with you and I hate this kind of thing. I remained silent on the issue till now and it just got to me.
Don
Posted Mon 28 Mar 11 @ 12:44 pm
the SOUND INSURGENT
Walter all this tech talk means nothing to me, lol!! I'm a simple man and I go with what works. For me that's going to be this plugin because as everybody knows the other just doesn't work on my laptop. So far with the help of Don and yourself I have been able to do what I want to do with this plugin. Which is overlay my logo aswell as other the acts that we host during our shows. I have searched the net and found a bunch of other videos that would give the videos I'm spinning an added pop, you know not what everyone else is doing.
So ill just watch and wait with my mouth shut as I'm already about to get the boot outta here, lol! But I will speak up when I am called out........and I'm a firm believer in you pay for what you get........and with this plugin its been nothing but quality!
Huey
So ill just watch and wait with my mouth shut as I'm already about to get the boot outta here, lol! But I will speak up when I am called out........and I'm a firm believer in you pay for what you get........and with this plugin its been nothing but quality!
Huey
Posted Mon 28 Mar 11 @ 12:50 pm
FireText
sorry @beatbreaker1 technical comparision was not started by wallter and I agree with you: "all this tech stuff means nothing", plus I am seeing wallter's comparision pretty fair and balanced, the only real difference here is our plugin being free and the other unknown, but I can't read which one is better, wasn't the point I guess...
I know you are not keen on using our plugin because is not working on your laptop (as I think worked perfect in your desktop - you are being unfair on that bit) and I am happy to say we are going to extract that feature and create a separate movie port plugin for virtual dj, that way we will give only what users want and not a full swiss knife as it is now... I hope you can give it a try when possible and plugin get's ready for deploy, guess you'll not like a beta application...
We've learned a lot this last years on dj stuff thanks to Paul, Ludwig, Brian, Layne, Tim, Doug and of course will be a long list if I name all those 7000+ users downloading the plugin; even for users not able to run the plugin at the first time and worked out and people like you that never worked on your lappy, I am sorry for that, trust me - we made this decission - free and standalone port plugin - to solve your problem, by now you have a good application that work for you and as said I am glad you finally got it working in your lappy.
Alex
PS: hahahah just read the comments from wallter post :) "... and then if FT guys let their dogs out on the yard..." you got me laughing for five minutes! thanks for the good spirit! :)
I know you are not keen on using our plugin because is not working on your laptop (as I think worked perfect in your desktop - you are being unfair on that bit) and I am happy to say we are going to extract that feature and create a separate movie port plugin for virtual dj, that way we will give only what users want and not a full swiss knife as it is now... I hope you can give it a try when possible and plugin get's ready for deploy, guess you'll not like a beta application...
We've learned a lot this last years on dj stuff thanks to Paul, Ludwig, Brian, Layne, Tim, Doug and of course will be a long list if I name all those 7000+ users downloading the plugin; even for users not able to run the plugin at the first time and worked out and people like you that never worked on your lappy, I am sorry for that, trust me - we made this decission - free and standalone port plugin - to solve your problem, by now you have a good application that work for you and as said I am glad you finally got it working in your lappy.
Alex
PS: hahahah just read the comments from wallter post :) "... and then if FT guys let their dogs out on the yard..." you got me laughing for five minutes! thanks for the good spirit! :)
Posted Mon 28 Mar 11 @ 2:15 pm
wallter
I knew I heard some barking in the background... ;-) Guys, I'm not an VDJ user, I bought a VJ software and it even hasn't have it's own forum, so I'm here nagging about flash stuff and thinking what would I do if I have VDJ. Hope I helped someone, reported some bugs and crashes (ahmmm), I'm still standing behind my comparision and I can make a proof for any stated above. I don't like shallow overviews and wrong facts. And I would like if thetracker could bring up some more pictures, he he...
Posted Mon 28 Mar 11 @ 3:01 pm
wallter
Thanks to my morning coffee, i found the solution for Don's problem with AVI's in FT VDJ Robot: it has to be an UNCOMPRESSED AVI with or without alpha channel support. There's no point in sticking some sorryass DivX into it, you got Clipbank plugin for that. FLV problem is still fighting with my second coffee, by if you download any of my FLV examples posted here, you'll make it easier. Sorenson's FLV codec with alpha channel support is widely accepted and highly recommended. Thanks to beatbreaker, I found that the main goal is to be unique, so there's no point in uploading files when everybody could use them. So make them by your own, buy them somewhere or ahhmmm, find another way. I'll try to find some other ways for using these flash plugins, stay tuned...
Posted Tue 29 Mar 11 @ 4:06 am
