cstoll
dizzyrocks2001 wrote :
I know that Atomix is not obligated to make a mapper for the V7 seeing as it is not their product and that you making a mapper is totally voluntary,
Chris (cstoll)
Hardware Development and Support
VirtualDJ / Atomix Productions
Maybe that will clarify for you on 'who' is obligated, not volunteering, and providing development and support for hardware BY Atomix.
dizzyrocks2001 wrote :
I'd hate to say it but sometimes I feel like "adjust your latency" seems to be the blanket statement response to a lot of problems in this forum.
Well latency is a big factor in computers and specially with bi-directional communication between software, the computer itself, and hardware connected to it. If latency was never a factor then there would not be 'setting' choices by manufactures with their drivers.
dizzyrocks2001 wrote :
Seeing as the platters work perfectly with Itch I thought that maybe there was something in the VDJ mapper I had missed. Try to appreciate my situation though,
Well considering the hardware was built specifically for that software, I to would expect perfection. Since we are providing support secondary to the manufacture's primary efforts and were not considered nor been privileged to the same development interaction I would think that what we have is considerably better than nothing at all.
dizzyrocks2001 wrote :
Seeing as the NS7 had the same problem but has since been resolved I don't think it's unreasonable for me to assume that the same fix would have been applied to the V7. I assumed wrong I guess.
And nothing with the mapping made FLUXXDJ's NS7 work with his system. His fixes to his problems are the same things I have been offering to you and at this point it is a matter of finding the right settings that gives your complete setup the best performance. Which right now is a focus on the latency settings.
So if you are using the default latency settings of 128samples - change it to 1024samples and step it down (512,256,etc) until you find it start to act up. Then back it up 1 setting and that is the optimal setting for your current configuration.
Posted Sun 18 Jul 10 @ 8:42 am
dizzyrocks2001
"Well considering the hardware was built specifically for that software, I to would expect perfection. Since we are providing support secondary to the manufacture's primary efforts and were not considered nor been privileged to the same development interaction I would think that what we have is considerably better than nothing at all."
Yes, I realize Atomix aren't privy to first hand development interaction and that it is better than nothing at all. The problem is that the current state of the V7's interaction with VDJ is not up to par for professional use. Up until now I have been using the VirtualVinyl soundcard and vinyl timecodes and have never been entirely happy with the sound quality, especially when using keylock. When using keylock with VDJ even the slightest change in pitch results in a very noticeable degradation of sound quality. After playing around with ITCH last night I can honestly say the sound quality is far superior including use of the keylock. And I'm talking about when using ITCH with the V7 at any latency setting as compared to even VDJ with running in internal mode without the VV soundcard. And even though my MacBook specs on my 4 year old MacBook might be a little outdated (2.4 gHz, 4 Gigs of RAM), most moderators on this forum would say that I need a more powerful machine. Keep in mind though that 4 years ago when I first started using VDJ my specs exceed the recommended minimum and VDJ still never really sounded great. And also keep in mind the poor audio was present even in stand-alone mode without using the external VV soundcard. And I'm not the only one who has commented on VDJ's sound quality. I have seen numerous posts on this forum regarding VDJ's sound quality issues. Then when I started using ITCH I was shocked to hear how much better it sounded, even with a RAM intensive controller such as the V7 on my slightly older bare minimum specs MacBook. I know those trying to help would say adjust the latency in VDJ to fix the sound problem but over 4 the last years I have tried every latency combination possible and it just never sounded great. Yet with ITCH the sound quality was bang-on from the get go which leads me to believe that my machine is in fact still up to par. As much as I prefer VDJ's many features like a sampler, beat grid, layout, folder structure etc. I feel like I'm willing to trade all that in for the superior sound quality I get from ITCH. As much as I'd hate to throw in the towel with the software I've been using for the last 4 years, I really can't justify settling for sub-par audio quality.
"And nothing with the mapping made FLUXXDJ's NS7 work with his system. His fixes to his problems are the same things I have been offering to you and at this point it is a matter of finding the right settings that gives your complete setup the best performance. Which right now is a focus on the latency settings."
So if you are using the default latency settings of 128samples - change it to 1024samples and step it down (512,256,etc) until you find it start to act up. Then back it up 1 setting and that is the optimal setting for your current configuration"
Ok, thanks for the clarification. I tried ramping up the latency settings in VDJ and the best results I got ranged from almost passable to horrible. When I adjusted and applied the various latency settings in ITCH it sounded the same for every setting... which was great sounding audio.
Up until now I was willing to live with the sub-par sound quality of VDJ but now that my new controllers are only partially functional and cause the sound quality to be even worse I have no choice but to jump ship. I am a professional working DJ and I can no longer afford to settle for sub-par sound quality and limited functionality. As much as it pains me to do so it looks like I'll be using ITCH until the sound quality problems with VDJ are resolved.
I know my post sounds Serato fanboy'ish but the bare boned facts are that ITCH works with my V7's and sounds great, VDJ does not work with my V7's and does not sound great. I appreciate all your help and for the most part I have been happy with VDJ over the years but right now I need to use what works.
Peace.
Yes, I realize Atomix aren't privy to first hand development interaction and that it is better than nothing at all. The problem is that the current state of the V7's interaction with VDJ is not up to par for professional use. Up until now I have been using the VirtualVinyl soundcard and vinyl timecodes and have never been entirely happy with the sound quality, especially when using keylock. When using keylock with VDJ even the slightest change in pitch results in a very noticeable degradation of sound quality. After playing around with ITCH last night I can honestly say the sound quality is far superior including use of the keylock. And I'm talking about when using ITCH with the V7 at any latency setting as compared to even VDJ with running in internal mode without the VV soundcard. And even though my MacBook specs on my 4 year old MacBook might be a little outdated (2.4 gHz, 4 Gigs of RAM), most moderators on this forum would say that I need a more powerful machine. Keep in mind though that 4 years ago when I first started using VDJ my specs exceed the recommended minimum and VDJ still never really sounded great. And also keep in mind the poor audio was present even in stand-alone mode without using the external VV soundcard. And I'm not the only one who has commented on VDJ's sound quality. I have seen numerous posts on this forum regarding VDJ's sound quality issues. Then when I started using ITCH I was shocked to hear how much better it sounded, even with a RAM intensive controller such as the V7 on my slightly older bare minimum specs MacBook. I know those trying to help would say adjust the latency in VDJ to fix the sound problem but over 4 the last years I have tried every latency combination possible and it just never sounded great. Yet with ITCH the sound quality was bang-on from the get go which leads me to believe that my machine is in fact still up to par. As much as I prefer VDJ's many features like a sampler, beat grid, layout, folder structure etc. I feel like I'm willing to trade all that in for the superior sound quality I get from ITCH. As much as I'd hate to throw in the towel with the software I've been using for the last 4 years, I really can't justify settling for sub-par audio quality.
"And nothing with the mapping made FLUXXDJ's NS7 work with his system. His fixes to his problems are the same things I have been offering to you and at this point it is a matter of finding the right settings that gives your complete setup the best performance. Which right now is a focus on the latency settings."
So if you are using the default latency settings of 128samples - change it to 1024samples and step it down (512,256,etc) until you find it start to act up. Then back it up 1 setting and that is the optimal setting for your current configuration"
Ok, thanks for the clarification. I tried ramping up the latency settings in VDJ and the best results I got ranged from almost passable to horrible. When I adjusted and applied the various latency settings in ITCH it sounded the same for every setting... which was great sounding audio.
Up until now I was willing to live with the sub-par sound quality of VDJ but now that my new controllers are only partially functional and cause the sound quality to be even worse I have no choice but to jump ship. I am a professional working DJ and I can no longer afford to settle for sub-par sound quality and limited functionality. As much as it pains me to do so it looks like I'll be using ITCH until the sound quality problems with VDJ are resolved.
I know my post sounds Serato fanboy'ish but the bare boned facts are that ITCH works with my V7's and sounds great, VDJ does not work with my V7's and does not sound great. I appreciate all your help and for the most part I have been happy with VDJ over the years but right now I need to use what works.
Peace.
Posted Sun 18 Jul 10 @ 11:25 am
FLUXXDJ
wow Dizzyrocks...Was that some kind of Dear John letter to atomix. hehe Listen buddy saying that the V7s work with Itch is like saying that fish work with water. Ofcourse they work with Itch they were designed around it. But you know VDj is a much better software and that is why you are trying to get it to work with the V7s, right? Ok then, instead of going backwards and trying to hurt Vdj's feelings and make it feel "sound quality" inadaquate. Lets just move forward, and find the settings that work best for you. Your hardware and software specs are not the same as mine nor the next guys. So as we all are different within reason, we must choose different settings. And you will be given good advice on how to get to that point if you dont give up. Its up to you. It took me awhile to get my NS7 working flawlessly, it didnt happen over night. And I have used Itch 1.5 and the new 1.7 Beta, and they are not more stable than VDj. I also play gigs for money and there is no way I would use Itch at a paid gig.I am not a fanboy, only interested in what works. And someday Itch will be there as I am sure that is what they are in the business to do. But it has not happened yet. Yes the sound engine in itch sounds great, but VDj has gotten really close to that with the new updated software for the motorized platter fix.You need to find what works for you and then find what your limitations are. Instead of wasting time typing heart ache and complaints, type some config settings or something that might catch the eye of one of us so that we may help one another all mix flawlessly together as one. Wow I feel like malcom X. cya
Posted Mon 19 Jul 10 @ 12:39 am
dizzyrocks2001
I have tried every latency setting possible and nothing works. I can send you a million screenshots of different latency settings but I don't know what good that would do. Here's a screenshot... doesn't work, here's another screenshot... still doesn't work.... and another, and another.
I know my last post sounded like a "dear John" letter but it was either that or say "VDJ + Numark V7 = Suck" and then feel the wrath of Cstoll (in a really big bold font). I have been using VDJ for 4 years so I'm aware of latency in relation to performance. For whatever reason VDJ doesn't work well with my setup and I'm sure as hell not about to drop another $2000 on a new MacBook in the hopes that it will resolve the problem only to find out that it wasn't the specs of my old MacBook at all but rather VDJ's limitations.
ITCH might still be a work in progress but all I know is it sounds waaaaay better and works with my V7's. I'd even rather I get two crashes a night with ITCH with great sound than no crashes with VDJ with it's horrible sound.
I know my last post sounded like a "dear John" letter but it was either that or say "VDJ + Numark V7 = Suck" and then feel the wrath of Cstoll (in a really big bold font). I have been using VDJ for 4 years so I'm aware of latency in relation to performance. For whatever reason VDJ doesn't work well with my setup and I'm sure as hell not about to drop another $2000 on a new MacBook in the hopes that it will resolve the problem only to find out that it wasn't the specs of my old MacBook at all but rather VDJ's limitations.
ITCH might still be a work in progress but all I know is it sounds waaaaay better and works with my V7's. I'd even rather I get two crashes a night with ITCH with great sound than no crashes with VDJ with it's horrible sound.
Posted Mon 19 Jul 10 @ 1:04 am
FLUXXDJ
I understand where u are coming from. But it is not VDj that is producing bad sound. You do ont have something configured correctly. If you did then you would be experiencing the same quality of sound that we are enjoying. You make it sound as if everything is correct wityh your setup and VDj just sounds like crap. That just isnt true. Mine sounds great! So there is a need to adjust some settings beyond just latency. You may need to dig deeper, thik outside the box. I dont need screenshots, just your setup specs and all of your important config settings, performance settins, and even your registry settings. There is a tool here called registry tool for Vdj that will allow you to do some additional tweaking to VDj parameters. The answer is there if u want it bad enough. Dont give up man, "YOU CAN DO IT!!" or JUST DO IT one of thoes sayings.. c-ya bro
PS. Did you ever consider that your USB bus might be overloaded. Are you using the USB ports on the back of your computer like you should? Do you have other USB device utilizing the USB bandwidth? I dont know what controllers you were using before the V7, but your computer may be overloaded in some way. I know they seem to be working in ITCH. But VDj is not the same software as ITCH. I want to hear that you are jamming on your V7 with Vdj, so lets get this fixed, ok?
PS. Did you ever consider that your USB bus might be overloaded. Are you using the USB ports on the back of your computer like you should? Do you have other USB device utilizing the USB bandwidth? I dont know what controllers you were using before the V7, but your computer may be overloaded in some way. I know they seem to be working in ITCH. But VDj is not the same software as ITCH. I want to hear that you are jamming on your V7 with Vdj, so lets get this fixed, ok?
Posted Mon 19 Jul 10 @ 12:08 pm
DHoude
First off, I am not jumping in saying VDJ has horrible sound. I am saying that I do hear digital artifacting when changing the speed/tempo/BPM of the song (my keylock is on and I use a range limit of 6%). I hear what he is saying and I don't hear that at all in Itch.
I think Itch does not slowly track back to 0 when hitting pitch reset, like VDJ does. Which leaves an extended window to notice digital artifacting (like a sub par MP3) only on VDJ.
I see allot of my mistakes (big ones) during my performances, that nobody else hears because they are partying and not inspecting me. I don't think they notice or care about what little they may hear.
Question is, does Itch have an instant "pitch reset" (like it appears to have)? and can there be an "instant" pitch reset in VDJ (+/- 6 jump to 0% pitch)? That may "get rid" of the issue.
I think Itch does not slowly track back to 0 when hitting pitch reset, like VDJ does. Which leaves an extended window to notice digital artifacting (like a sub par MP3) only on VDJ.
I see allot of my mistakes (big ones) during my performances, that nobody else hears because they are partying and not inspecting me. I don't think they notice or care about what little they may hear.
Question is, does Itch have an instant "pitch reset" (like it appears to have)? and can there be an "instant" pitch reset in VDJ (+/- 6 jump to 0% pitch)? That may "get rid" of the issue.
Posted Mon 19 Jul 10 @ 2:45 pm
dizzyrocks2001
FLUXXDJ wrote :
I understand where u are coming from. But it is not VDj that is producing bad sound. You do ont have something configured correctly. If you did then you would be experiencing the same quality of sound that we are enjoying. You make it sound as if everything is correct wityh your setup and VDj just sounds like crap. That just isnt true. Mine sounds great! So there is a need to adjust some settings beyond just latency. You may need to dig deeper, thik outside the box. I dont need screenshots, just your setup specs and all of your important config settings, performance settins, and even your registry settings. There is a tool here called registry tool for Vdj that will allow you to do some additional tweaking to VDj parameters. The answer is there if u want it bad enough. Dont give up man, "YOU CAN DO IT!!" or JUST DO IT one of thoes sayings.. c-ya bro
PS. Did you ever consider that your USB bus might be overloaded. Are you using the USB ports on the back of your computer like you should? Do you have other USB device utilizing the USB bandwidth? I dont know what controllers you were using before the V7, but your computer may be overloaded in some way. I know they seem to be working in ITCH. But VDj is not the same software as ITCH. I want to hear that you are jamming on your V7 with Vdj, so lets get this fixed, ok?
PS. Did you ever consider that your USB bus might be overloaded. Are you using the USB ports on the back of your computer like you should? Do you have other USB device utilizing the USB bandwidth? I dont know what controllers you were using before the V7, but your computer may be overloaded in some way. I know they seem to be working in ITCH. But VDj is not the same software as ITCH. I want to hear that you are jamming on your V7 with Vdj, so lets get this fixed, ok?
Hey Fluxx. Okay, let's give this a shot.
Black MacBook, 2.4gHz, Intel Core 2 Duo, 250G Hard Drive.
I only use one of the two usb ports but I'll have to check when I get home whether it's connected to the closest to me or farthest from me. Other than the USB cable going to the first V7 I don't have anything else hooked up to USB.
I have used the registry tool but the only thing I've used it for is to lengthen the history timer, use speedload, change the default location of the VDJ folder from Documents to Applications, and set the "sort order force" to 1 (most played). I've never touched the MIDI related stuff in the registry so I assume they're all at their default settings. I've never used VDJ with MIDI until now so I always just ignored the MIDI stuff in the registry, will I be needing to adjust any of those settings?
Performance tab in the config menu:
The last time I tried VDJ with the V7's I got the least crappy results by setting the slider to the "Quality" side,
"Sound Card" : latency 512 (11ms)
"Scratch" : optimized for latency checked, filter size 11, filter smooth unchecked,
48 kHz <-> : lowpass filter checked, filter taps 11, filter smooth checked
Master Tempo : Advanced checked, complexity 0, spatialization 0
Let me know if you need any more info. Thanks.
Posted Mon 19 Jul 10 @ 4:25 pm
cstoll
dizzyrocks2001 wrote :
"Sound Card" : latency 512 (11ms)
Always AUTO - you are creating a conflict between the driver's setting and VirtualDJ ...
And you under estimate my responses ... more things get solved when people actually just try suggestions given and report back - than run off and try things they have no clue about ...
Posted Mon 19 Jul 10 @ 6:20 pm
dizzyrocks2001
It's on auto now. But in all fairness in a previous post you said "So if you are using the default latency settings of 128samples - change it to 1024samples and step it down (512,256,etc) until you find it start to act up. Then back it up 1 setting and that is the optimal setting for your current configuration."
Posted Mon 19 Jul 10 @ 6:22 pm
DJElite3
No response between VDJ and NS7. Have everything set up according to VDJ website recommendations. No button response at all
Posted Mon 19 Jul 10 @ 6:38 pm
cstoll
dizzyrocks2001 wrote :
It's on auto now. But in all fairness in a previous post you said "So if you are using the default latency settings of 128samples - change it to 1024samples and step it down (512,256,etc) until you find it start to act up. Then back it up 1 setting and that is the optimal setting for your current configuration."
And in the post where you got the BIG font - because you were wandering off and doing other things ---
cstoll wrote :
Change the driver's latency settings and see if that helps. As the latency setting may be to fast for your system and causing the issue you describe.
Guess you stopped reading after reading the BIG font stuff .... :)
But anyhow -- change the Driver's settings not VirtualDJ's
Posted Mon 19 Jul 10 @ 7:17 pm
cstoll
DJElite3 wrote :
No response between VDJ and NS7. Have everything set up according to VDJ website recommendations. No button response at all
Have you read here - http://www.virtualdj.com/forums/129646/Hardware_Technical_Support/_How_to_setup_your_NSFX_and_NS7_to_work_with_VDJ_flawlessly____yes_flawlessly.html?page=1
Posted Mon 19 Jul 10 @ 7:23 pm
FLUXXDJ
See now we are getting somewhere instead of boo hooing. Yes definitely change to AUTO that is a problem as Cstoll said. Also change master temp to fast, scratch for latency and simple alogorithm, interpolation to basic, safemode and over clock should be left blank. These settings are bare bones to get you going. Once a steady performance is determined then upgrade to more demanding settings. I would not mess with any midi settings in the registry tool untill you are better aquainted. I have adjusted none in my registry and every thng is fine. What sound setup settings are you using?
Posted Mon 19 Jul 10 @ 7:44 pm
FLUXXDJ
Hey djelite where did you come from? Hey buddy can you give some specifics so that we know what we are dealing with besides just the problem you are having buddy? This will help narrow it down as a million things could be the cause of your NS7 problem. At VDj we dont have problems, we have solutions. Lets get that NS7 pump'n baby.
Posted Mon 19 Jul 10 @ 7:48 pm
dizzyrocks2001
FLUXXDJ wrote :
See now we are getting somewhere instead of boo hooing. Yes definitely change to AUTO that is a problem as Cstoll said. Also change master temp to fast, scratch for latency and simple alogorithm, interpolation to basic, safemode and over clock should be left blank. These settings are bare bones to get you going. Once a steady performance is determined then upgrade to more demanding settings. I would not mess with any midi settings in the registry tool untill you are better aquainted. I have adjusted none in my registry and every thng is fine. What sound setup settings are you using?
I made all the changes you mentioned. By the way, the safemode and overclock settings are not present in the Mac version (although they used to be). Sound setup is:
Inputs: None
Outputs: External Mixer - Left Deck : Front output / Right Deck : Rear Output
Sound Card: 4-Out Card - Numark V7
The sound is still sub-par. Any other suggestions?
Posted Tue 20 Jul 10 @ 4:36 am
FLUXXDJ
So the output of music through your ampilfier out to the speakers sounds sub par, right? Is it really that bad or are you still cmparing to the sound of ITCH's outputted sound? Just trying to confirm how serious an issue we have. Bare with me. I assume you have adjusted you latency settings for each V7, trying to find the ones that work best for you. My suggestion to you as I have a huntch about this problem. Can you please setup VDJ and your equipment on a different computer with the proper requested specs for VDj. Then we can know for sure what is the culprit easily. If you could get access to a PC running windows 7 or an newer MAC . This would greatly help our trouble shoooting cause for you. Im not saying go out and buy new hardware, just maybe borrow. VDJ will install on another computer, just make sure to remove it before connecting to the internet as the machine will blow up!!
Posted Tue 20 Jul 10 @ 8:34 am
dizzyrocks2001
The sound was still very digital sounding and the key would still fluctate. And the scratching is still horrible.
I'll borrow my friends one year old MacBook and see if the results differ. You mentioned "adjusting my latency settings for each V7". What do you mean by that? The performance section of the config menu of VDJ does not give me the option to see individual V7's, all the settings are global. Should I be setting up one V7 first and then swap in the other V7?
I'll borrow my friends one year old MacBook and see if the results differ. You mentioned "adjusting my latency settings for each V7". What do you mean by that? The performance section of the config menu of VDJ does not give me the option to see individual V7's, all the settings are global. Should I be setting up one V7 first and then swap in the other V7?
Posted Tue 20 Jul 10 @ 9:04 am
FLUXXDJ
No, stick with the global settings I was not aware they were combined on the config menu. Look forward to hearing from u soon
Posted Tue 20 Jul 10 @ 7:56 pm
DJElite3
FLUXXDJ wrote :
Hey djelite where did you come from? Hey buddy can you give some specifics so that we know what we are dealing with besides just the problem you are having buddy? This will help narrow it down as a million things could be the cause of your NS7 problem. At VDj we dont have problems, we have solutions. Lets get that NS7 pump'n baby.
Well my problem started out a long time ago... First I had problems with VDJ making it past the "Ininitializing external devices" screen. I left VDJ alone for awhile and waited for the update. Since I've updated my last problem prior was "error in the asio sound driver: not enough channels". Now I have no response. Not sure where to start to fix the problem.
Numark NS7, VDJ 6.1, HP G70-250-US, Pentium Dual Core T4200, Vista Premium 32-bit, 300GB, w/4GB RAM, 400GB Toshiba external drive,
Posted Tue 20 Jul 10 @ 9:36 pm
DHoude
DJElite3 wrote :
Since I've updated my last problem prior was "error in the asio sound driver: not enough channels". Now I have no response. Not sure where to start to fix the problem.
I just recoved from that myself this morning, setting up my new laptop.
Make sure the firmware is upto date (mine was). I have, Win 7 64 bit, so this step may not be as important to you.
I uninstalled the driver, restarted the PC, re downloaded the driver, re installed it, restarted and it worked like a champ.
Posted Wed 21 Jul 10 @ 7:05 am
