Rune (DJ-In-Norway)
@ apopsis, Dj andre and Mark Lambertzz
My findings are the exact same as DJ Rick, and never had any problems what so ever with memory leak or crashes..
NOW, back to the examples of Apopsis... just taking some wild guesses the issue is NOT memory leak, but how you use "MAX LOAD" in VDJ...
If you don't have a fast enough/strong enough PC, there can be skips when NOT using "MAX LOAD" to FULL ("always")
My wild guess is that the reason for this is that the program keeps loading the song bit by bit into ram/memory as you play the song, therefore have high cpu usage, instead of loading the whole song at once (max load at full) that will make cpu drop a lot after song is loaded.
SO, giving that my wild guess and logic is true, you would find the exact same things that Apopsis found...
If you set MAX LOAD at NONE, the cpu will stay high all the time because it loads the song bit by bit continuously, instead of loading the whole song into ram at once when using max load at full..
So, if you play songs that are at the size that your ram and virtual memory/page file (harddrive space) can allow, setting VDJ to max load full, you will not have any problems ...
but trying to load a song that is a lot bigger than ram (as uncompressed wave) setting max load at none, or at low, will make your pc work continously loading the song as it plays it..
solution might be software fix, but also not to use songs of such a big lenght that your ram can't load it as a full song.
just a few thoughts & guesses...
My findings are the exact same as DJ Rick, and never had any problems what so ever with memory leak or crashes..
NOW, back to the examples of Apopsis... just taking some wild guesses the issue is NOT memory leak, but how you use "MAX LOAD" in VDJ...
If you don't have a fast enough/strong enough PC, there can be skips when NOT using "MAX LOAD" to FULL ("always")
My wild guess is that the reason for this is that the program keeps loading the song bit by bit into ram/memory as you play the song, therefore have high cpu usage, instead of loading the whole song at once (max load at full) that will make cpu drop a lot after song is loaded.
SO, giving that my wild guess and logic is true, you would find the exact same things that Apopsis found...
If you set MAX LOAD at NONE, the cpu will stay high all the time because it loads the song bit by bit continuously, instead of loading the whole song into ram at once when using max load at full..
So, if you play songs that are at the size that your ram and virtual memory/page file (harddrive space) can allow, setting VDJ to max load full, you will not have any problems ...
but trying to load a song that is a lot bigger than ram (as uncompressed wave) setting max load at none, or at low, will make your pc work continously loading the song as it plays it..
solution might be software fix, but also not to use songs of such a big lenght that your ram can't load it as a full song.
just a few thoughts & guesses...
Posted Fri 15 Oct 04 @ 6:00 pm
well, forget about my last post...
the "always" setting solved the "loudness bar" prob and the CPU usage, but ...
my XP crashed two times (blue screen with different messages).
at least now i'm convinced that's a matter of the whole setup of the PC.
i found now my configuration that works well, even though i can't use every feature, but for me it works fine, so ...
1. i think it would be better if you get more information about the soft, before you purchase it, or something like a troubleshooting guide, cos it sucks time to investigate all the details in the forum by yourself..
2. i love the soft still... ;-)))
cheers,
mark
the "always" setting solved the "loudness bar" prob and the CPU usage, but ...
my XP crashed two times (blue screen with different messages).
at least now i'm convinced that's a matter of the whole setup of the PC.
i found now my configuration that works well, even though i can't use every feature, but for me it works fine, so ...
1. i think it would be better if you get more information about the soft, before you purchase it, or something like a troubleshooting guide, cos it sucks time to investigate all the details in the forum by yourself..
2. i love the soft still... ;-)))
cheers,
mark
Posted Sat 16 Oct 04 @ 1:30 pm
Rune (DJ-In-Norway)
being around the forum for some time now, it seems in most cases that it is a computer problem, and not software (VDJ), when problems arises...
and yeah... it can be pain to find out why it crashes, skips etc. There is a few tips at forum about turning off background apps and services that "steals" power/memory of your pc etc.
but, there is often also hardware problems, like IRQ conflicts and more... and laptops have often "bad" designs, crowded irq's and even a over-heating issue...
being an intense program (VDJ), there are room for hardware and computer problems, and yes... its frustrating...!! :)
We always try to solve and help the ones getting these problems, by asking hardware specs etc. But its hard often, because the first users think about is that its a software issue (and most often its not), so its hard to get into a dialog with the user about the problems... and its also hard to solve hardware & computer issues over a forum like this...
I have had my issues too... and I say again, if you are a working pro dj, you should try to keep your working dj pc/laptop as clean as possible.. with a clean install of Windows. A dedicated dj pc is what keeps you out of problems... or at least have a dual booth pc, where one of them is for dj use only..
I know its asking for a lot, having a dedicated pc for dj use, but think about it! you want it to be a safe, working dj equipment... and laptop + vdj is a lot cheeper than buying other dedicated dj hardware...
just a few thoughts... :)
but my true wish for the future is some kind of error message from VDJ, telling the user what driver/hardware or OS problem that caused the trouble, so that the user could post the error message at forum, for best possible support :)
I have a clean pc running VDJ, and have never had troubles! (except from bugs that are now ironed out..)
and thats the truth...
;)
and yeah... it can be pain to find out why it crashes, skips etc. There is a few tips at forum about turning off background apps and services that "steals" power/memory of your pc etc.
but, there is often also hardware problems, like IRQ conflicts and more... and laptops have often "bad" designs, crowded irq's and even a over-heating issue...
being an intense program (VDJ), there are room for hardware and computer problems, and yes... its frustrating...!! :)
We always try to solve and help the ones getting these problems, by asking hardware specs etc. But its hard often, because the first users think about is that its a software issue (and most often its not), so its hard to get into a dialog with the user about the problems... and its also hard to solve hardware & computer issues over a forum like this...
I have had my issues too... and I say again, if you are a working pro dj, you should try to keep your working dj pc/laptop as clean as possible.. with a clean install of Windows. A dedicated dj pc is what keeps you out of problems... or at least have a dual booth pc, where one of them is for dj use only..
I know its asking for a lot, having a dedicated pc for dj use, but think about it! you want it to be a safe, working dj equipment... and laptop + vdj is a lot cheeper than buying other dedicated dj hardware...
just a few thoughts... :)
but my true wish for the future is some kind of error message from VDJ, telling the user what driver/hardware or OS problem that caused the trouble, so that the user could post the error message at forum, for best possible support :)
I have a clean pc running VDJ, and have never had troubles! (except from bugs that are now ironed out..)
and thats the truth...
;)
Posted Sat 16 Oct 04 @ 3:52 pm
Kingston Town
different verions have different issues, i have had versions with the described memory leak and other ones that do not
Posted Sun 17 Oct 04 @ 2:47 am
apopsisdj
Dj in norway,.. i didn't say that i have crashes or problems
with vdj, and as you can see i'm full user now ..!
I NEVER play files from hard disk now, i always have
atomixmp3, or winamp, or pcdj red at the background
to play big files, mixes etc., and this is my workaround..
But - i think it is not normal for a dual software player the
100% cpu usage when the song is not loaded in memory.
It is like i have cubase SX2 mixing 24 audio tracks with
20-30 plugins... (the same pc)
What if you forgot the pc on with just a "big" file loaded
for a couple of hours ?
cpu overheat, fans running at full ... for nothing ?
with vdj, and as you can see i'm full user now ..!
I NEVER play files from hard disk now, i always have
atomixmp3, or winamp, or pcdj red at the background
to play big files, mixes etc., and this is my workaround..
But - i think it is not normal for a dual software player the
100% cpu usage when the song is not loaded in memory.
It is like i have cubase SX2 mixing 24 audio tracks with
20-30 plugins... (the same pc)
What if you forgot the pc on with just a "big" file loaded
for a couple of hours ?
cpu overheat, fans running at full ... for nothing ?
Posted Mon 18 Oct 04 @ 9:16 pm
Rune (DJ-In-Norway)
yeah... I see the issue Apopsis..
maybe the team could incorporate a better way of playing really big files, so that the program would play them just like Atomixmp3/winamp etc... as a user choice (would of course loose some preview features like songposition, visual beats ahead of play etc)...
But a regular "windows media player" kinda way to use VDJ, so it would act just like any regular mp3 player (like atomixmp3) for really big files, like long mixes, could be a nice feature...
dont get me wrong, apopsis, I too know that playing really huge files is kinda a problem with VDJ, and last disussion about the topic was if a DJ should play long files or not.. but that aside, it seems like many want to play such long files for different reasons, so I think VDJ team should look into it, and make a different play-mode option for such files... :)
maybe the team could incorporate a better way of playing really big files, so that the program would play them just like Atomixmp3/winamp etc... as a user choice (would of course loose some preview features like songposition, visual beats ahead of play etc)...
But a regular "windows media player" kinda way to use VDJ, so it would act just like any regular mp3 player (like atomixmp3) for really big files, like long mixes, could be a nice feature...
dont get me wrong, apopsis, I too know that playing really huge files is kinda a problem with VDJ, and last disussion about the topic was if a DJ should play long files or not.. but that aside, it seems like many want to play such long files for different reasons, so I think VDJ team should look into it, and make a different play-mode option for such files... :)
Posted Tue 19 Oct 04 @ 2:19 pm
apopsisdj
I agree, lets wait and see.
Posted Tue 19 Oct 04 @ 5:01 pm
DJ Rick
Based on what is written here, I'd almost be willing to bet that you are dealing with a heat issue.
RAM gets hot! When it does, at first it's less effecient, then blue screen!!
RAM gets hot! When it does, at first it's less effecient, then blue screen!!
Posted Tue 19 Oct 04 @ 5:36 pm
apopsisdj
The heat was not from ram but from the cpu.
I just noticed that every time i loaded a file (that does not fit
in memory), (or max load set to none, so no ram usage for audio) the fan started immediately to run at full speed...
Then i checked the cpu usage and voila !
I can accept it for the loading time of a song but not to stay 100% forever...
Ok lets say "its not a bug, its a feature", like i can say...
"I'm not fat, my clothes are small... "
but better to fix myself, not the clothes ...
I just noticed that every time i loaded a file (that does not fit
in memory), (or max load set to none, so no ram usage for audio) the fan started immediately to run at full speed...
Then i checked the cpu usage and voila !
I can accept it for the loading time of a song but not to stay 100% forever...
Ok lets say "its not a bug, its a feature", like i can say...
"I'm not fat, my clothes are small... "
but better to fix myself, not the clothes ...
Posted Tue 19 Oct 04 @ 6:31 pm
Dev staff
Well, I think this thread deserve an answer from the dev team ;)
First, about the 100% CPU usage:
As you might know, Windows has been designed since version 3.0 to be a "multi-task" operating system, and PC's CPUs have also been designed to be multi-tasking since 80386.
That means that the whole system is designed to run multiple pieces of code (called processes and threads) at the same time.
Therefore, having a system running at 100% CPU does not mean at all that the system is short on resources or instable.
It all depends on how the different threads behave and what priority they are asking for. But Windows has been written in order to perform at its best with a 100% CPU usage.
To put it more simply, VirtualDJ has be written in an efficient way (of course):
If the software has something to do that can benefit from being done faster (like loading the song and analysing it), AND if the CPU has some spare time left doing nothing, then VirtualDJ will claim that time for itself and therefore load the song as fast as your system can (but without risking to make it unstable).
And of course, as soon as another software or process needs some CPU time for its own, VirtualDJ will instantly give back the exact amount of CPU needed by this process.
So having a CPU of 100% is not a bug at all, but a "feature", and a rather smart one ;)
And I really don't understand those of you who say that you'd rather have the software load the songs more slowly, and let the computer spend half of its time doing nothing.
What's the point in buying a fast CPU if it's for letting it doing nothing half of its time?
About the memory leak.
I can assure you that each version of VirtualDJ is throughoughly tested with both home-made and professional memory-leak detection tools, and that we wouldn't release a version that would show some sign of a possible memory-leak.
Still, due to the huge complexity of the source code (with many different threads allocating memory from various different memory models, etc), tracking memory-leaks is not 100% fail-safe, but I still doubt strongly that there are any leak left in the software.
If you have real evidence of such a leak, I would be happy to have a look on it and try to correct it.
Finally, about the load from disk problem
There is indeed no reason why the CPU usage is kept at 100% when the song is not playing, for big files loaded from the disk. There might be a small bug here, I will put this on our tasklist.
First, about the 100% CPU usage:
As you might know, Windows has been designed since version 3.0 to be a "multi-task" operating system, and PC's CPUs have also been designed to be multi-tasking since 80386.
That means that the whole system is designed to run multiple pieces of code (called processes and threads) at the same time.
Therefore, having a system running at 100% CPU does not mean at all that the system is short on resources or instable.
It all depends on how the different threads behave and what priority they are asking for. But Windows has been written in order to perform at its best with a 100% CPU usage.
To put it more simply, VirtualDJ has be written in an efficient way (of course):
If the software has something to do that can benefit from being done faster (like loading the song and analysing it), AND if the CPU has some spare time left doing nothing, then VirtualDJ will claim that time for itself and therefore load the song as fast as your system can (but without risking to make it unstable).
And of course, as soon as another software or process needs some CPU time for its own, VirtualDJ will instantly give back the exact amount of CPU needed by this process.
So having a CPU of 100% is not a bug at all, but a "feature", and a rather smart one ;)
And I really don't understand those of you who say that you'd rather have the software load the songs more slowly, and let the computer spend half of its time doing nothing.
What's the point in buying a fast CPU if it's for letting it doing nothing half of its time?
About the memory leak.
I can assure you that each version of VirtualDJ is throughoughly tested with both home-made and professional memory-leak detection tools, and that we wouldn't release a version that would show some sign of a possible memory-leak.
Still, due to the huge complexity of the source code (with many different threads allocating memory from various different memory models, etc), tracking memory-leaks is not 100% fail-safe, but I still doubt strongly that there are any leak left in the software.
If you have real evidence of such a leak, I would be happy to have a look on it and try to correct it.
Finally, about the load from disk problem
There is indeed no reason why the CPU usage is kept at 100% when the song is not playing, for big files loaded from the disk. There might be a small bug here, I will put this on our tasklist.
Posted Thu 21 Oct 04 @ 4:33 pm
apopsisdj
"Finally, about the load from disk problem
There is indeed no reason why the CPU usage is kept at 100% when the song is not playing, for big files loaded from the disk. There might be a small bug here, I will put this on our tasklist "
That's exactly what i wanted to hear...
I agree to all other points.
Thank you Dev Staff, (and keep it high on your tasklist please...)
There is indeed no reason why the CPU usage is kept at 100% when the song is not playing, for big files loaded from the disk. There might be a small bug here, I will put this on our tasklist "
That's exactly what i wanted to hear...
I agree to all other points.
Thank you Dev Staff, (and keep it high on your tasklist please...)
Posted Thu 21 Oct 04 @ 5:00 pm
Dev staff
ok it has been corrected.
The next update will have a low cpu usage when songs are played from disc.
The next update will have a low cpu usage when songs are played from disc.
Posted Thu 21 Oct 04 @ 5:30 pm
apopsisdj
What can i say ?...
..thanx..
..thanx..
Posted Thu 21 Oct 04 @ 6:24 pm
Rune (DJ-In-Norway)
this thread makes me remembering WHY I bought VDJ.. ;)
It was first of all because the software is great, second of all because the Dev Team listen to its users very carefully and upgrades in an incredible speed ;) THANX AGAIN
happy as can be dj-from-norway :) lol
It was first of all because the software is great, second of all because the Dev Team listen to its users very carefully and upgrades in an incredible speed ;) THANX AGAIN
happy as can be dj-from-norway :) lol
Posted Fri 22 Oct 04 @ 1:33 pm
clax
Great job dev staff
Posted Fri 22 Oct 04 @ 9:11 pm
WirelessDJ
Appreciate the updates. thank you
WirelessDJ
WirelessDJ
Posted Sat 23 Oct 04 @ 2:04 am
DJ Andre Landry
Well i dont want to be the one spoiling the party but vdj chews up Ram and dont give it all back.DJ Wireless post seems pretty clear what was missed.
I dont know how much more proof you need.
I also know it isnt easy to find.
I use Vdj everyday and 5 nights a week i love this program but there is definitely a memory leak
If you would like more info please contact me!
I am greatful also for the updates thank you
Regards
Andre
I dont know how much more proof you need.
I also know it isnt easy to find.
I use Vdj everyday and 5 nights a week i love this program but there is definitely a memory leak
If you would like more info please contact me!
I am greatful also for the updates thank you
Regards
Andre
Posted Sat 23 Oct 04 @ 9:51 am
Dev staff
Well, I might have missed something then.
What wireless' post are you talking about?
What wireless' post are you talking about?
Posted Sat 23 Oct 04 @ 1:27 pm
DJ Andre Landry
In this post Oct 14.....23:29
Thanks for the attention to this problem
I did my homework it is not hardware related
this only happens with VDJ
My specs have been posted several times
Thanks for the attention to this problem
I did my homework it is not hardware related
this only happens with VDJ
My specs have been posted several times
Posted Sat 23 Oct 04 @ 7:06 pm
apopsisdj
@ Dev staff:
The problem with files playing from Hard disk, was not only
the 100% cpu usage, but a "freeze" and looping problem,
when you browse in a big file.
Lets say : load a 60 min mix file and click the progress
bar to 50 min for example.
I hope the problem was due to the high cpu and fixed now..
- Is it ?
The problem with files playing from Hard disk, was not only
the 100% cpu usage, but a "freeze" and looping problem,
when you browse in a big file.
Lets say : load a 60 min mix file and click the progress
bar to 50 min for example.
I hope the problem was due to the high cpu and fixed now..
- Is it ?
Posted Sat 23 Oct 04 @ 7:27 pm
