Bouncers, throw him out!
lol.
lol.
Posted Sun 04 Jun 06 @ 5:11 pm
partyperfectdj
Just spoke to Tech support. Their attention to the matter is close to qualifying for a class action suit to compensate all laptop users.
Mine ran for 2 hours yesterday no problem then I touched the volume knob of my UA-30 USB sound card (Bet you all have USB sound cards huh!), and boom, screen gone.... Back to BMP Studio that has not crashed once in 5 years on any system!
They blame the system and it may be, I explained to them that Notebooks can/could have video card interfaces in different areas than descktops and an interrupt routine could occasionally write to that area as a bug that only happens under certain conditions. For example the SW is heavily interrupt driven so there are long nests of interrupts and higher priority ones interrupting them for scrolling decoding MP3 loading and normilizing a song etc. So when one combinations comes up a bogus write to system memory occurs and that area is used by notebooks more often than desktop chip sets on the respective motherboards.
Yes I know what I am talking about I am an embedded DSP engineer with 20 years experience designing Digital Ultrasound machines and the Cypress line of USB chips used in 75% of USB products.
I wrote the BIOS and helped design the USB chip inside the XBOX memory unit!!!!! Yes it was on MY desk with a custom built hardware HW/SW debugger with a matching VHDL model and SW debugger while I and others made it work!
Also worked on the first USB thumb drives!
First USB CF Readers... My fellow engineers worked on the committee for the USB standards for communicating with windows!
I myself designed the first non-sony USB Memory Stick Reader!
Need any more credentials for my opinion on if it is the SW or HW???
Mine ran for 2 hours yesterday no problem then I touched the volume knob of my UA-30 USB sound card (Bet you all have USB sound cards huh!), and boom, screen gone.... Back to BMP Studio that has not crashed once in 5 years on any system!
They blame the system and it may be, I explained to them that Notebooks can/could have video card interfaces in different areas than descktops and an interrupt routine could occasionally write to that area as a bug that only happens under certain conditions. For example the SW is heavily interrupt driven so there are long nests of interrupts and higher priority ones interrupting them for scrolling decoding MP3 loading and normilizing a song etc. So when one combinations comes up a bogus write to system memory occurs and that area is used by notebooks more often than desktop chip sets on the respective motherboards.
Yes I know what I am talking about I am an embedded DSP engineer with 20 years experience designing Digital Ultrasound machines and the Cypress line of USB chips used in 75% of USB products.
I wrote the BIOS and helped design the USB chip inside the XBOX memory unit!!!!! Yes it was on MY desk with a custom built hardware HW/SW debugger with a matching VHDL model and SW debugger while I and others made it work!
Also worked on the first USB thumb drives!
First USB CF Readers... My fellow engineers worked on the committee for the USB standards for communicating with windows!
I myself designed the first non-sony USB Memory Stick Reader!
Need any more credentials for my opinion on if it is the SW or HW???
Posted Sun 04 Jun 06 @ 5:30 pm
partyperfectdj
BTW: I WILL TRY the leaving Task manager on trick.
THE REASON THIS MAY MAKE THE PROBLEM GO AWAY OR HAPPEN 1,000 TIME LESS OFTEN IS THIS APP CAUSES A STEADY STREAM OF ITS OWN INTERUPPTS TO THE SYSTEM AND GRAPHICS AREAS, THEY ARE HIGHER PRIORITY INTERRUPTS THAN SOME OF vdj'S, SO THE RIGHT COMBINATION OF INTERRUPTS THAT CAUSES THE BOGUS MEMORY LEAK MAY BE CONVIENTIENTLY AVOIDED.
PPDJ :-)
THE REASON THIS MAY MAKE THE PROBLEM GO AWAY OR HAPPEN 1,000 TIME LESS OFTEN IS THIS APP CAUSES A STEADY STREAM OF ITS OWN INTERUPPTS TO THE SYSTEM AND GRAPHICS AREAS, THEY ARE HIGHER PRIORITY INTERRUPTS THAN SOME OF vdj'S, SO THE RIGHT COMBINATION OF INTERRUPTS THAT CAUSES THE BOGUS MEMORY LEAK MAY BE CONVIENTIENTLY AVOIDED.
PPDJ :-)
Posted Sun 04 Jun 06 @ 5:50 pm
Who cares???
Go take a cold shower, cool down.
A DSP engineer crying over a $200 piece of software.
Oh brother!
Go take a cold shower, cool down.
A DSP engineer crying over a $200 piece of software.
Oh brother!
Posted Sun 04 Jun 06 @ 5:55 pm
Partyman
I have it running on four laptops without any problem and I am not any kind of special computer guru. I have not had any problems at all but I am runnin 3.4
Posted Sun 04 Jun 06 @ 6:22 pm
partyperfectdj
I just fixed the blank screen with out rebooting....
FN-SLEEP then come out of sleep and then USB and built in sound do not work.
But you can save active list and re-start.
As for Bo Hooing. Maybe you like to spend money on SW that makes you look like an idiot at a gig but I do not.
And for what it does it is better than all the others, IF IT WORKS. Likie I said BPM Studio is great but no functionality. But when DJing Not crashing is 1,000x better than bells and whistles. And I do photography at the same time (That's right smart guy can do both at once with pro results for both (and $$ for both), visit my site www.partyperfectdj.com) so the AUTO-DJ-PC Better work reliably I could not be 2000 feet away taking a picture!
So I would LIKE IT TO WORK, if that is OK with you!
And I am runing 3.4 BTW, on a 1.6 GHZ notebook with 512MEG and FIREWIRE HD USB AUDIO and USB MOUSE.
And don't blame me for being smart, I'm just trying to give a fix or work around for all the frustrated people in the same boat.
BTW Muzzy your technical input is very poor. You obviously think it is not the SW, when it is the only SW in the world to do this to our Laptops. Very poor debugging skills. My wife BTW is also a SW quality Assurance engineer and agrees completely with me. so sorry thats 2 MSEE's that say it is the SW sensitive to HW configurations that it should not be! She tests SW on different configurations for Nokia Servers ALL day, when one config does not work the SW is changed!
Loser. Bot back and toke another one.....
I'lll keep debugging it and let you know when source is isolated!
FN-SLEEP then come out of sleep and then USB and built in sound do not work.
But you can save active list and re-start.
As for Bo Hooing. Maybe you like to spend money on SW that makes you look like an idiot at a gig but I do not.
And for what it does it is better than all the others, IF IT WORKS. Likie I said BPM Studio is great but no functionality. But when DJing Not crashing is 1,000x better than bells and whistles. And I do photography at the same time (That's right smart guy can do both at once with pro results for both (and $$ for both), visit my site www.partyperfectdj.com) so the AUTO-DJ-PC Better work reliably I could not be 2000 feet away taking a picture!
So I would LIKE IT TO WORK, if that is OK with you!
And I am runing 3.4 BTW, on a 1.6 GHZ notebook with 512MEG and FIREWIRE HD USB AUDIO and USB MOUSE.
And don't blame me for being smart, I'm just trying to give a fix or work around for all the frustrated people in the same boat.
BTW Muzzy your technical input is very poor. You obviously think it is not the SW, when it is the only SW in the world to do this to our Laptops. Very poor debugging skills. My wife BTW is also a SW quality Assurance engineer and agrees completely with me. so sorry thats 2 MSEE's that say it is the SW sensitive to HW configurations that it should not be! She tests SW on different configurations for Nokia Servers ALL day, when one config does not work the SW is changed!
Loser. Bot back and toke another one.....
I'lll keep debugging it and let you know when source is isolated!
Posted Sun 04 Jun 06 @ 8:46 pm
djcel
You can try Fn-F7 too.
Can you try without your USB mouse?
Can you try without your USB mouse?
Posted Sun 04 Jun 06 @ 9:44 pm
Rune (DJ-In-Norway)
sorry for not seeing this thread before...
I do hope you can pin down what causes this, and if its an error in VDJ, it will be fixed as soon as possible
I do hope you can pin down what causes this, and if its an error in VDJ, it will be fixed as soon as possible
Posted Sun 04 Jun 06 @ 10:53 pm
I haven't given any technical input to you an don't intend to.
Your attitude seems far from mature regardless of your boastful qualification claims.
Sorry, but having a hissy fit and asking for your MONEY BACK = LOSER!!!
:)))
Your attitude seems far from mature regardless of your boastful qualification claims.
Sorry, but having a hissy fit and asking for your MONEY BACK = LOSER!!!
:)))
Posted Sun 04 Jun 06 @ 11:49 pm
Rune (DJ-In-Norway)
lets all calm down:)
if there is a problem with black screen for some laptops (and a few have reported this), we need to find out why.... and fix it...
Hope the user trying to find out why this happends, can narrow down the issue...
regards
rune
if there is a problem with black screen for some laptops (and a few have reported this), we need to find out why.... and fix it...
Hope the user trying to find out why this happends, can narrow down the issue...
regards
rune
Posted Mon 05 Jun 06 @ 2:17 am
A Man and His Music
partyperfectdj, your computer skills are so far above mine, it's not funny. Your professional entertainment skills are another thing. You said you "lost screen every ten minutes". At what point do you go to the backup system? Your clients don't give a shit about your software problems. If any equipment gives me a problem, I don't wait for it to happen again. That's software or hardware. You have a legitimate beef if the software does not work on your computer. However, you should have known that, BEFORE you used it on paying clients. You said the software made you "look like an idiot". I think your repeated use of a product that is not working, made you look like an idiot. Hopefully, you and the team will find a solution to your issue. Then, you can have flawless shows like so many of us, who are not as smart as you.
Posted Mon 05 Jun 06 @ 8:40 am
@ Dj in norway
I tried to stay away from this one but the urge got the better of me.
It just sickens me to see posts from guy's like Partyperfect with Egos bigger than this forum, directly attacking software developers and engineering managers because they have a problem on their particular setup.
Lets fire everyone, how dare they sell me a buggy software, do you know who i am?
What makes it more fustrating is that his low self esteem has led to shouting and profanities not to mention the great lengths he has taken to emphasise how clever he is and what he has acheived in life, which cannot benifit his problem in any way. What is his outcome so far? what could he simply achieve by threatening with legal action?
One thing that i have learned in life is that there is always someone that knows more and has achieved more.
Was his ego diminished because of a crash during a live gig?
If BPM studio worked so well why did he find the need to replace the software with another? There's atleast a $1000 dollars thrown away. why not go back to it for the interim untill his problem is solved.
Or since there are so many engineers in his family, why not buy another laptop? I'm sure together their annual income would pool around 180k. Here is another suggestion, download the trial and test it on your laptop before you purchase. If it doesnt work for you than don't buy!!! But i guess that is a bit late now.
It just does not make sense.
It doesnt take a genious to work out
He further substantiates his assertions with support from his wife. How nice, but that won't solve his problem.
Welcome to the real world, i say. He is not the first and certainly wont be the last to experience software or hardware problems. There is a forum specifically for bug reports and there is the E-SERVICE link provided to submitt your ticket for technical support.
Be patient and wait like the rest of us, there are always work arounds in the meantime.
The members of this community are more than willing to provide help to the best of thier ability and are not employees of virtualDJ. Let's not forget that.
Humbling yourself will go along way, not just here but also in your personal life.
BTW. my dog has 20 years experience in psycho analysis and he agrees with me that partyperfect is a nutter. lol
see how silly this sounds?
And what did i acheive by submitting this post? NOTHING!
It just made me feel better knowing that i didn't just watch unfair slander and derogotry comments hurled about unjustifiably.
I tried to stay away from this one but the urge got the better of me.
It just sickens me to see posts from guy's like Partyperfect with Egos bigger than this forum, directly attacking software developers and engineering managers because they have a problem on their particular setup.
Lets fire everyone, how dare they sell me a buggy software, do you know who i am?
What makes it more fustrating is that his low self esteem has led to shouting and profanities not to mention the great lengths he has taken to emphasise how clever he is and what he has acheived in life, which cannot benifit his problem in any way. What is his outcome so far? what could he simply achieve by threatening with legal action?
One thing that i have learned in life is that there is always someone that knows more and has achieved more.
Was his ego diminished because of a crash during a live gig?
If BPM studio worked so well why did he find the need to replace the software with another? There's atleast a $1000 dollars thrown away. why not go back to it for the interim untill his problem is solved.
Or since there are so many engineers in his family, why not buy another laptop? I'm sure together their annual income would pool around 180k. Here is another suggestion, download the trial and test it on your laptop before you purchase. If it doesnt work for you than don't buy!!! But i guess that is a bit late now.
It just does not make sense.
It doesnt take a genious to work out
He further substantiates his assertions with support from his wife. How nice, but that won't solve his problem.
Welcome to the real world, i say. He is not the first and certainly wont be the last to experience software or hardware problems. There is a forum specifically for bug reports and there is the E-SERVICE link provided to submitt your ticket for technical support.
Be patient and wait like the rest of us, there are always work arounds in the meantime.
The members of this community are more than willing to provide help to the best of thier ability and are not employees of virtualDJ. Let's not forget that.
Humbling yourself will go along way, not just here but also in your personal life.
BTW. my dog has 20 years experience in psycho analysis and he agrees with me that partyperfect is a nutter. lol
see how silly this sounds?
And what did i acheive by submitting this post? NOTHING!
It just made me feel better knowing that i didn't just watch unfair slander and derogotry comments hurled about unjustifiably.
Posted Mon 05 Jun 06 @ 9:17 am
Quote from partyperfect :
"And I do photography at the same time (That's right smart guy can do both at once with pro results for both (and $$ for both)"
Think Again!! He he
www.mmusichire.com.au
Cheerio ;)
"And I do photography at the same time (That's right smart guy can do both at once with pro results for both (and $$ for both)"
Think Again!! He he
www.mmusichire.com.au
Cheerio ;)
Posted Mon 05 Jun 06 @ 11:25 am
partyperfectdj
Well you can all attack me for being so bold in writing. But after I tested the trial for 1+ hours 4-5 times on the notebook and a server I decided to buy. The trial never hung.
I then used with out problem for 2 days to plan for gigs and learn. It hung once and after a lot of config changes so I forgave it...
I THEN added a usb sound card and usb mouse and switched HDD from USB to 1394, used for another hour and off to gig.
One hour in hung, then 10 min later hung. THENI DID SWITCH to BPM, I'm, not that dumb!
Then next day test out runs all day no hang. Got ot event, runs 1.5 hours, touch USB volume HUNG.
Switch to BMP.
In both cases clients could not tell, I ment to say it COULD make me look like an idiot if not fixed.
BTW: No error logs in Windows Event logger.
But will try removal od USB sound and mouse.
I came on strong becasue it sounded from the thread that all but ~5% of laptop users had the same problem. If all but 5% do not have a problem, I fully appologize to the support team!!!!
As for my boasting I felt it necessary to explain the IMPOSSIBILITY of the SW not being PART of the problem!!! And I think the support team will agree, it is not possible to be the only app in the world that has this effect on your notebook and not be APP related.... Duh
Maybe you can write some advise on the source and or fix rather than spend time writing verbal attacks for my giving my credentials, and trying to issolate the problem. Like I said I use a server most times anyway, and am going to try the SW on a shuttle, my P3 server is too slow, to see if really robust on a non-notebook.
But like I said, me and my fellow DJ's purchase SW solely on ithe improbability of a birp, skip or crash before anything else. But VDJ fades and auto-bpms very nice so we are running it through the ringer to approve it for steady use.
I then used with out problem for 2 days to plan for gigs and learn. It hung once and after a lot of config changes so I forgave it...
I THEN added a usb sound card and usb mouse and switched HDD from USB to 1394, used for another hour and off to gig.
One hour in hung, then 10 min later hung. THENI DID SWITCH to BPM, I'm, not that dumb!
Then next day test out runs all day no hang. Got ot event, runs 1.5 hours, touch USB volume HUNG.
Switch to BMP.
In both cases clients could not tell, I ment to say it COULD make me look like an idiot if not fixed.
BTW: No error logs in Windows Event logger.
But will try removal od USB sound and mouse.
I came on strong becasue it sounded from the thread that all but ~5% of laptop users had the same problem. If all but 5% do not have a problem, I fully appologize to the support team!!!!
As for my boasting I felt it necessary to explain the IMPOSSIBILITY of the SW not being PART of the problem!!! And I think the support team will agree, it is not possible to be the only app in the world that has this effect on your notebook and not be APP related.... Duh
Maybe you can write some advise on the source and or fix rather than spend time writing verbal attacks for my giving my credentials, and trying to issolate the problem. Like I said I use a server most times anyway, and am going to try the SW on a shuttle, my P3 server is too slow, to see if really robust on a non-notebook.
But like I said, me and my fellow DJ's purchase SW solely on ithe improbability of a birp, skip or crash before anything else. But VDJ fades and auto-bpms very nice so we are running it through the ringer to approve it for steady use.
Posted Mon 05 Jun 06 @ 4:36 pm
partyperfectdj
First Experiment: go back to one Sound Card.
Remove USB hi-quality USB sound card and use just internal.
Results: Still blank screen, BUT, when using goto sleep and wake up fix, comes back playing music still and fully functional where when two sound cards (one for Amp) one for preview, neither for headphones, both sound outputs where screwed up and had ro re-start SW.
Muzzy nice work (i.e. Slide Shows), but a huge amount of extra work (equaly to the DJing itself) to not be priced seperately.... Do you do it by yourself like me or with a partner?
Remove USB hi-quality USB sound card and use just internal.
Results: Still blank screen, BUT, when using goto sleep and wake up fix, comes back playing music still and fully functional where when two sound cards (one for Amp) one for preview, neither for headphones, both sound outputs where screwed up and had ro re-start SW.
Muzzy nice work (i.e. Slide Shows), but a huge amount of extra work (equaly to the DJing itself) to not be priced seperately.... Do you do it by yourself like me or with a partner?
Posted Mon 05 Jun 06 @ 4:59 pm
Rune (DJ-In-Norway)
"If all but 5% do not have a problem, I fully appologize to the support team!!!! "
A few have reported such issues... I helped one with updating video drivers, and changing IRQs, as well as turning off all power management. It worked ... but I'm not sure why...
So, if you can find the issue, we would be very happy!
Even if only 5% have this problem, 5% is way to much..... and we want it to work for all
regards
rune
A few have reported such issues... I helped one with updating video drivers, and changing IRQs, as well as turning off all power management. It worked ... but I'm not sure why...
So, if you can find the issue, we would be very happy!
Even if only 5% have this problem, 5% is way to much..... and we want it to work for all
regards
rune
Posted Mon 05 Jun 06 @ 5:07 pm
partyperfectdj
Sorry for not being clear.
I DO NOT put it to sleep.
I SAID when the screen goes blank, instead of rebooting I can get graphic control back from FN-Sleep and then power on for out of sleep. This resets the graphics system and your VDJ screen will not be blank and you have control over the app.
BUT, with Dual sound cards, USB and built in for headphones. Both sound systems are broken, skipping or off etc even with new song load etc.
With only ONE sound card, built in, the sleep recover trick results in FULL control over SW coming back including audio still playing!
So now it has been running for a longer time after I removed USB mouse as Support suggested. Looks USB related.... But rather than a long embarrassing re-boot, I at least have it down to a sleep wake 5 second down time.
I will now test a Desktop with USB mouse and Audio.
Regards.
What do others run for Hi Quality USB/FIREWIRE or PCMCIA Audio verse crappy built in sound card.
BTW: Another issue with Laptops, most of them and especially DELL, is they have a buzz if using external USB Sound Card where a rack mount server does not, you need to use a three prog to 2 prog adapter to get rid of the problem. My IT/DJ friend worked with dell to fix this unique HW problem, thier new series does not have the prob, my new HP has it a tad, buy wifes Dell HORRID! Unless ungrounded from Amp you can hear external HDD like a jet plane! With laptop and HDD not grounded, problem gone!
Just another Laptop issue (SW independent) to watch for..... That's why my real system is 1U server, I use Laptop for only small gigs and back-up and ceremony music etc... Can't trust them...
I DO NOT put it to sleep.
I SAID when the screen goes blank, instead of rebooting I can get graphic control back from FN-Sleep and then power on for out of sleep. This resets the graphics system and your VDJ screen will not be blank and you have control over the app.
BUT, with Dual sound cards, USB and built in for headphones. Both sound systems are broken, skipping or off etc even with new song load etc.
With only ONE sound card, built in, the sleep recover trick results in FULL control over SW coming back including audio still playing!
So now it has been running for a longer time after I removed USB mouse as Support suggested. Looks USB related.... But rather than a long embarrassing re-boot, I at least have it down to a sleep wake 5 second down time.
I will now test a Desktop with USB mouse and Audio.
Regards.
What do others run for Hi Quality USB/FIREWIRE or PCMCIA Audio verse crappy built in sound card.
BTW: Another issue with Laptops, most of them and especially DELL, is they have a buzz if using external USB Sound Card where a rack mount server does not, you need to use a three prog to 2 prog adapter to get rid of the problem. My IT/DJ friend worked with dell to fix this unique HW problem, thier new series does not have the prob, my new HP has it a tad, buy wifes Dell HORRID! Unless ungrounded from Amp you can hear external HDD like a jet plane! With laptop and HDD not grounded, problem gone!
Just another Laptop issue (SW independent) to watch for..... That's why my real system is 1U server, I use Laptop for only small gigs and back-up and ceremony music etc... Can't trust them...
Posted Mon 05 Jun 06 @ 6:02 pm
partyperfectdj
I have all known controls off, no vieo med latency, power savings etc Don't know how to turn Master Tempo off?
Just hung w/o USB mouse. Will try no external HDD next...
As for PC not being fast enough, this should just effect performance and as a matter of fact I had graphic plug-ins working with out a burp on second monitor port al ready and had trial working sloooow on my old PIII server. So speed/mem should not cause BLANK SCREEN, don't you agree? Should have some performance side effect like a skip....
I'll let you know of next 2-3 experiment results later ;-)
Just hung w/o USB mouse. Will try no external HDD next...
As for PC not being fast enough, this should just effect performance and as a matter of fact I had graphic plug-ins working with out a burp on second monitor port al ready and had trial working sloooow on my old PIII server. So speed/mem should not cause BLANK SCREEN, don't you agree? Should have some performance side effect like a skip....
I'll let you know of next 2-3 experiment results later ;-)
Posted Mon 05 Jun 06 @ 6:12 pm
partyperfectdj
While I wait for next test.......
BTW: Muzzy,
I am not working right now... Stay home Dad of 4 and DJ and Photographer, since 2003. But if working it would be more like ~$275,000 for us both.... But we have to work all summer LOL! Just busting em I used to work with Engineers from Denmark when I designed Ultrasound Machines... B&K Medical.... Nice group, but Lot's of time off ;-)
And I already have another notebook to try and 5 other PC's in the house for a total of 7, I am waiting to buy the new server required to run this hungry VDJ once convinced it is stable...
BTW: Muzzy,
I am not working right now... Stay home Dad of 4 and DJ and Photographer, since 2003. But if working it would be more like ~$275,000 for us both.... But we have to work all summer LOL! Just busting em I used to work with Engineers from Denmark when I designed Ultrasound Machines... B&K Medical.... Nice group, but Lot's of time off ;-)
And I already have another notebook to try and 5 other PC's in the house for a total of 7, I am waiting to buy the new server required to run this hungry VDJ once convinced it is stable...
Posted Mon 05 Jun 06 @ 6:33 pm
partyperfectdj
So far two PC's running longest with out hang....
The Laptop with music on internal HDD and NO external USB or 1394 devices (As suggested by Support) and a Shuttle Desktop WITH external USB HDD and USB Mouse (Same equipment that may have effected Laptop).
Shuttle is no more powerful than Laptop BTW, AMD Sempron 1.6 Gig 512 Ram 2400. So far only diff is one is a notbook and one is a desktop, like original analysis on this thread. For some reason laptops much fussier than Desktops???? And note: my PIII just ran slow for song load and easy to skip etc, no blank screen, that is still only on a Laptop.... So performance is not underlying problem, it does seem to be overall Motherboard chip set differences for USB and or 1394 maybe??
Must wait and see rest of day....... Still could hang, will let you know... ;-) But bug almost narrowed down to a short concise description of casue and effect.
The Laptop with music on internal HDD and NO external USB or 1394 devices (As suggested by Support) and a Shuttle Desktop WITH external USB HDD and USB Mouse (Same equipment that may have effected Laptop).
Shuttle is no more powerful than Laptop BTW, AMD Sempron 1.6 Gig 512 Ram 2400. So far only diff is one is a notbook and one is a desktop, like original analysis on this thread. For some reason laptops much fussier than Desktops???? And note: my PIII just ran slow for song load and easy to skip etc, no blank screen, that is still only on a Laptop.... So performance is not underlying problem, it does seem to be overall Motherboard chip set differences for USB and or 1394 maybe??
Must wait and see rest of day....... Still could hang, will let you know... ;-) But bug almost narrowed down to a short concise description of casue and effect.
Posted Mon 05 Jun 06 @ 8:15 pm
