PressNPlayDJ
That's not convincing me, as I can load a female acapella track (little or no low frequencies) and see a full waveform with the old 'non-beats' view.
If necessary I can post a pic of a track in Adobe Audition and VDJ for a side-by-side comparison.
The new "improved" beats waveform is just peaks, whereas the one it's replaced was the full thing.[/quote]
This! Dan i know you're not a developer but having an extra option that is already there and supporting would help get it done. Maybe your voice counts better than mine or the other users. I don't know.
Posted Wed 01 Jul 20 @ 7:45 pm
groovindj
Since posting that, I did actually do a comparison between a song in VDJ and the same song in Adobe Audition.
Adion was right. The 'old style' rhythmwave that was replaced by 'beats' isn't a true full waveform like the songpos (deck) waves.
Compared to the 'real' waveform viewed in Audition, the VDJ wave contains less bulk and is spikier - but not as spiky as the beats version.
So based on that, I'd say what's required is something more akin to a songpos wave, but in a more rhythmwave-like style. :-/
Adion was right. The 'old style' rhythmwave that was replaced by 'beats' isn't a true full waveform like the songpos (deck) waves.
Compared to the 'real' waveform viewed in Audition, the VDJ wave contains less bulk and is spikier - but not as spiky as the beats version.
So based on that, I'd say what's required is something more akin to a songpos wave, but in a more rhythmwave-like style. :-/
Posted Wed 01 Jul 20 @ 7:53 pm
Rune (DJ-In-Norway)
Would strongly suggest starting to use the new 3-band waveforms though...
The beat part of this waveform is much alike the old "spikes" waveform, but with crucial extra info such as instantly being able to spot vocal starts, breaks etc.
Its tons more useful ;-) Sometimes change is often met with resistance, naturally .. its human .. and all that "teach a pony new tricks" ..
But its often fruitful to try new things though, and in this case, I'm pretty confident that you'll prefer the new waveform after using it for a bit
(and while the spike one has changed to be much more clear beat only (and by that probably more useful), not sure introducing non-intended bleeding, and artifacts to "emulate" the old waveform is really the way forwards either. But in fairness, I havent used this rhythm waveform in the longest time... )
The beat part of this waveform is much alike the old "spikes" waveform, but with crucial extra info such as instantly being able to spot vocal starts, breaks etc.
Its tons more useful ;-) Sometimes change is often met with resistance, naturally .. its human .. and all that "teach a pony new tricks" ..
But its often fruitful to try new things though, and in this case, I'm pretty confident that you'll prefer the new waveform after using it for a bit
(and while the spike one has changed to be much more clear beat only (and by that probably more useful), not sure introducing non-intended bleeding, and artifacts to "emulate" the old waveform is really the way forwards either. But in fairness, I havent used this rhythm waveform in the longest time... )
Posted Wed 01 Jul 20 @ 7:57 pm
groovindj
.....but we can only get that with the mathengine on, and for some people it's too sluggish on their computer.
I guess what we're requesting is something that looks close to that, but without needing a nuclear power station to run it.
We're also saying we don't like the 'beats' view.
I guess what we're requesting is something that looks close to that, but without needing a nuclear power station to run it.
We're also saying we don't like the 'beats' view.
Posted Wed 01 Jul 20 @ 8:04 pm
Rune (DJ-In-Norway)
groovindj wrote :
.....but we can only get that with the mathengine on, and for some people it's too sluggish on their computer.
If you turn math engine off, the old waveform is there, as it always was ;-) same,. and no change. . So no complaints then..
(its the math engine that makes it possible to make "spikes" waveform much more clear and precise on beat. And if math engine on, you might as well use 3-band, much more useful waveform)
Posted Wed 01 Jul 20 @ 8:09 pm
groovindj
Rune (dj-in-norway) wrote :
If you turn math engine off, the old waveform is there
That's the scratch waveform, not the one which has been replaced by 'beats'.
With the mathengine off, there's no difference between 'colours' and 'shapes' waves. They're both scratchwaves. The only different style is 'beats', and that's too spiky.
Posted Wed 01 Jul 20 @ 8:17 pm
Rune (DJ-In-Norway)
groovindj wrote :
The only different style is 'beats', and that's too spiky.
The only different style is 'beats', and that's too spiky.
Try. With math-engine off, its as before (in older versions)
And with math engine on, better to use the 3-band new waveform, for many good reasons
If you mean the mirrored double one from old skins, thats a different topic. Not the one posted by the original poster of this thread, it was about the spikes waveform (and the old mirror one is just a skin thing, its easily be still be used in any skin xml, or using old skin. )
Posted Wed 01 Jul 20 @ 8:25 pm
PressNPlayDJ
@Rune
[/quote]
Try. With math-engine off, its as before (in older versions)
And with math engine on, better to use the 3-band new waveform, for many good reasons
[/quote]
So basically to make everyone happy because you can, can't you include the waveform with mathengine off to be an option when mathengine is on? Name it Classic waveform or something like that.
[/quote]
Try. With math-engine off, its as before (in older versions)
And with math engine on, better to use the 3-band new waveform, for many good reasons
[/quote]
So basically to make everyone happy because you can, can't you include the waveform with mathengine off to be an option when mathengine is on? Name it Classic waveform or something like that.
Posted Wed 01 Jul 20 @ 11:55 pm
PressNPlayDJ
Pleeease. :)
Posted Wed 01 Jul 20 @ 11:57 pm
kradcliffe
Come on guys, the waveform disappearing when math engine is on is plainly a bug. I just want to use the normal overlapping waveform as before.
kradcliffe wrote :
There's something screwed up here. Only beats are showing in the new waveform. I can't work like this. Need the quieter sections to show as well.
Old version (b5504) - Rihanna S&M (Blocks skin, default waveform)
[IMAGE1]
VDJ 2021 - Rihanna S&M (Blocks skin, default waveform)
[IMAGE2]
Old version (b5504) - Rihanna S&M (Blocks skin, default waveform)
[IMAGE1]
VDJ 2021 - Rihanna S&M (Blocks skin, default waveform)
[IMAGE2]
Posted Thu 02 Jul 20 @ 6:27 am
PressNPlayDJ
Nice to see more people on this... They can keep the beats waveform as it is and just add the normal one as an option.
Posted Thu 02 Jul 20 @ 6:39 am
kradcliffe
Tried the latest version and the bug is still there. Any "non-beat" section of the song is missing. Can we please get a fix for this?
Screenshots below show 5504 vs the current early access build.
Screenshots below show 5504 vs the current early access build.
Posted Fri 03 Jul 20 @ 6:18 am
groovindj
In plain English, we would like to see a waveform* that shows all the frequencies in the rhythmwave, not just spiky lines.
* Not the scratch wave or the shapes wave. The one you just removed (or an improvement of it).
* Not the scratch wave or the shapes wave. The one you just removed (or an improvement of it).
Posted Fri 03 Jul 20 @ 8:03 am
iamanotheryou
PressNPlayDJ wrote :
Send me an email and I'll wire 200$ just to get this waveform while mathengine is on.
Send me an email and I'll wire 200$ just to get this waveform while mathengine is on.
Wow.
Mouth money.
kradcliffe wrote :
I just want to use the normal overlapping waveform as before.
^ this.
Rune (dj-in-norway) wrote :
Sometimes change is often met with resistance, naturally .. its human .. and all that "teach a pony new tricks" ..
I agree with you, that ingrained habits have a natural resistance to change.
However, change needs to be an improvement, and sometimes what feels like an improvement,
or 'sold' as an improvement, is going backwards (there are various reasons that causes this, but that's a deeper conversation).
I've been online since mid-1990s (mIRC days, Napster, etc.) and last 25+ years, it's been all about change in I.T. anyway, ...so, I know about "change".
There's been constant re-education of I.T. subjects, certifications, new technologies, protocol updates, changing browsers, etc. etc.
(my first semester I.T. subject was already obsolete, when I left university, a few years after that).
I know what you mean by "change", but this isn't about 'pony's learning new tricks'.
The super-imposed waveforms works for me, because of percussive music,
where there are multiple peaks and there are also basslines which are not heavy beats.
There are also percussive elements, which are also vocal elements (ie. the vocals form part of the percussion),
so, it's not easy just to isolate them either (i tried it with STEMs, and it sounded funny)...or view them in the waveform either.
Trance, techno, etc... 4x4 bars...has a different mixing style, compared to beatless ambient, bellydancing beats, tribal/ethnic percussions.
The rhythms form through the percussion. It's not clear to see this in other waveforms....and for mixing purposes.
Also, I like the super-imposed waveforms (ie. waveform on top of each other), because
as the song plays, Deck 1 <---> Deck 2, you can see as the waveform scrolls across the screen,
where the "valley" is and where the next "mountain" starts.
You can this in synchronization, very nicely....however, this is not evident, when waveforms are just side-by-side.
So, as songs/vocals end, you see the timing of the next start of the beat-drop or vocal, etc.
( You can adjust the Deck 1, with a 'loop_move' , in time to coincide with the next change in waveform )
This creates smoother transitions and can be seen on the super-imposed waveforms.
Maybe there are technical problems behind-the-scenes,
or maybe with STEMs, the code for the older waveforms cause other visual issues, which I don't know about.
I brought it up as a discussion topic, and to understand the reasoning behind why the waveforms changed, over the years.
I can understand a technical reason.
I can understand a technical person.
I empathise with technical people.
I have not heard a good technical reason.
I am not being stubborn about the issue either.
( I say this with a smile :-) ... not arrogance )
If someone doesn't know the reason, it's fine to hear a "I don't know",
but since we have a passionate community, everyone is passionate to respond & in their own way, according to their knowledge of the programming behind it.
There are challenges or technical hurdles, e.g. perhaps the STEM technology/isolation has other side-effects?
But to be told (not by you) "you're comparing with OLD SOFTWARE", "get with the times",
"learn this new way of mixing!", "mixing is not about eyes",... focuses on the wrong parts of the discussion altogether.
Posted Fri 03 Jul 20 @ 8:16 am
Dj Pari M
@kradcliffe...according to the devs...the way it worked for the past 10 or more years was a bug...and this is the fix lol...I understand their philosophy but it lacks flexibility
Posted Fri 03 Jul 20 @ 12:52 pm
kradcliffe
But what's the point of a waveform if it shows nothing but the beats?
The fact it loads the correct waveform momentarily then removes it shows there's something not right here.
As people have stated, if the new beatless one is "progress" then at least give people who have been using the old one since 2008 an option to keep it.
I really don't understand Atomix sometimes.
The fact it loads the correct waveform momentarily then removes it shows there's something not right here.
As people have stated, if the new beatless one is "progress" then at least give people who have been using the old one since 2008 an option to keep it.
I really don't understand Atomix sometimes.
Posted Fri 03 Jul 20 @ 5:31 pm
xylume
I prefer VDJ2021's waveforms over 2020 and 2018. I feel giving it more than a few days or up to 2 weeks might help people adjust and we all have our preferences. The screenshots don't look as bright and vibrant as how it actually looks on my MSI Gaming Monitor. I guess some laptop screens aren't that easy to see, but I feel they're great. I'm not saying they can't be improved upon, but I rely on my ears a lot more than my eyes while mixing. I like the enlarged style and prefer to have my waveforms overlapped (most of the time).
Posted Sat 04 Jul 20 @ 9:46 am
kradcliffe
So here's another track. With math engine on it shows literally nothing for the first 20 seconds before the beat kicks in, where with math engine off it shows correctly. Once I analyze songs I use the waveform to set cue 1 at the start of the song but that's not possible now.
Can someone please explain how this is correct .... surely the waveform display should be the same irrespective of the math engine setting?
Even stranger is that if you select the inverted waveform, the quiet section shows both with math engine on and off. Edit, reloaded VDJ and the quiet section has now disappeared.
Can someone please explain how this is correct .... surely the waveform display should be the same irrespective of the math engine setting?
Even stranger is that if you select the inverted waveform, the quiet section shows both with math engine on and off. Edit, reloaded VDJ and the quiet section has now disappeared.
Posted Sun 05 Jul 20 @ 7:41 pm
PressNPlayDJ
Funny thing is that you can load a song, have mathengine disabled and then enable it and the waveform will change only after you load a song.
Posted Mon 06 Jul 20 @ 5:13 pm
Luigi5682
I prefer the older overlapping waveform, too. The scratchwave might let me see more information, but the default wave helps me more to get a better mix. And I want to see all of the track, not only the Peaks.
Posted Mon 06 Jul 20 @ 6:54 pm
