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Topic: Pioneer CDJ master tempo

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I am wondering if the pioneer CDJ master tempo is any good. That is not my real question but lets start off with that. For 1 i don't know any thing about master tempo, ie. how it works when it is engaged, used on software or hardware or if there are better master tempos than others?

I am looking at getting a pair or CDJs. I don't know what model yet.

I have seen a few videos on the net, demos etc and from what i have seen on them the master tempo seems to work a lot better. Of coarse these are setup only with a mixer and only a CD inserted so there is no real software or compression to deal with.. Iam guessing this is why the track holds its sound with out loss of sound quality??


Anyway iam thinking of getting a pair of CDJs.

I searched a thread on the forums and found that you can use the CDJ 400, 900, 2000 as HID or MIDI mode. The thing i want to know is if i use the master tempo on the CDJ to change the song in VDJ using MIDI, will it sound any better than VDJ, ableton? I ask as i have done pretty much everything i can to make my laptop setup for low latency audio streaming but still i cant get the keylock to work!


EDIT>>>> I kind of just realized that even if i use the master tempo on a MIDI, HID compatible CDJ it i still going to have to go through the software/computer and also contend with the compression of the track. So it is probably going to sound the same?
I am also guessing that the master tempo is probably the same on the CDJ as VDJ & ableton, its just that the CDJ when used with just a CD (PCM) and no other interference is probably why it doesn't have any sound degradation?
 
Posted Wed 27 Oct 10 @ 6:49 am
When in HID or MIDI mode, the sound processing is done entirely by the software VirtualDJ. All the CD player is doing is sending signals to VirtualDJ to tell it to start song playback, scratch, etc. and VIrtualDJ is sending signals back to the CD player to tell it to light LED's, etc.

In HID/MIDI mode, the master tempo capabilities of the CD player itself make absolutely no difference. Master tempo if used will be processed by VirtualDJ itself.

If you are using the CD players to control VirtualDJ via timecode, then master tempo MUST NOT be used. If you turn on master tempo on the CD player, it will apply to the timecode signal itself and will corrupt it.

Have you tried the new and much improved advanced master tempo in VirtualDJ v7?

NOTE: If you have selected PureScratch under CONFIG -> Performances, then master tempo cannot be used.
 
Ok i get that.

I have tried it and on my machine and it is not much better than VDJ 6. Ive noticed before on VDJ 6 and even 7 when i engage the keylock the track dies on the down beat. Last time i tried on about 4 tracks and there was no evidence of this with MP3 or WAV. Of coarse with the keylock enabled and moving th epitch even as much as a 1/4 of a beat in VDJ 7 the dead sound is so noticeable you cant play your music to gain any sort of satisfaction out of it.

I don't know if you recommend anything?

I was going to try the tweaks listed in 'PC version tech support' forum but i had already posted this thread so. Try them you reckon?



..... Also 1 of the reasons i think it may be doing this is because of the poor performance in DPC latency checker. The graph shows spikes in the red up to 10000ms + at times. Ie. This is after i have turned off all wireless switches, disabled as much i can and stopped everything on startup etc

I ran the 'windows performance analysis toolkit' and it showed the NDIS driver showing the highest max duration. I tried to ask "andrew87" about this as he tried to guide me through how to locate and fix bad drivers.
 
From your description it sounds as though you are still using simple master tempo.

Go to CONFIG -> Performances in VirtualDJ v7 and make sure that you have advanced master tempo selected.

If you do already have it selected, then the problem you are experiencing may be due to performance issue (As the red DPC latency spikes would indicate) - I.e: The sound is dropping out and/or stuttering.

To use advanced master tempo, you will need a computer that meets and preferably exceeds the recommended specifications listed on the following page: http://www.virtualdj.com/products/virtualdj/index.html

NDIS is a network driver, so your DPC issue is most likely being caused by wireless networking. Try turning this off (Most laptops have a switch or button to switch off wireless.)

Please see http://www.virtualdj.com/homepage/jpboggis/blogs/4094/Common_performance_issues_and_solutions.html for a list of common causes of performance issues and their solutions.
 
jpboggis wrote :
From your description it sounds as though you are still using simple master tempo.

Go to CONFIG -> Performances in VirtualDJ v7 and make sure that you have advanced master tempo selected.

If you do already have it selected, then the problem you are experiencing may be due to performance issue (As the red DPC latency spikes would indicate) - I.e: The sound is dropping out and/or stuttering.

To use advanced master tempo, you will need a computer that meets and preferably exceeds the recommended specifications listed on the following page: http://www.virtualdj.com/products/virtualdj/index.html

NDIS is a network driver, so your DPC issue is most likely being caused by wireless networking. Try turning this off (Most laptops have a switch or button to switch off wireless.)

Please see http://www.virtualdj.com/homepage/jpboggis/blogs/4094/Common_performance_issues_and_solutions.html for a list of common causes of performance issues and their solutions.


I tried the performances 'advanced master tempo'. It is working a lot better i would have to say. It still is not exactly what i want but a lot better considering. The sound still drops out slighty though.

I was thinking maybe the sound may get better if the latency was down more. I have it set on (512) 11ms at the moment. I tried it on (256) 5ms and you could hear the cracks and pops distinctively on each track. My sound card is a M audio conectiv which has the option of setting the latency down to 128 so i don't think compatibility is a issue though. I tried the DPC latency checker again and had a continuous latency of about 120 microseconds and a absolute maximum of about 1460 microseconds no spikes in the red tested for about 15 minutes.

I ran the performance analysis tool again and the NDIS was at 0.0032ms, after i disabled the network adapters, which is low i think. The highest was ntoskrnl.exe which was about 0.096ms. There were about 6 others which were above the 0.01ms mark. So i don't know if you think this may be the cause of my PC not being able to run latency at 256 or if it is something else.
 
On a second note get it, i may should just install windows onto the seocnd hard drive on my laptop.

I will just install windows on and just use it for Virtual DJ. Obviously it is just to hard to turn everything on and off and rebooting when you want to play music!

Hopefully that will cure the latency issues and i can run VDJ on a lower latency setting.

Do you think there will be any issues from a complete install on the hard drive from latency side of things? Perhaps just the performance tweaks and thats it.
 
If you start getting sound stuttering, glitches or break-up then it means the setting it too low for your computer to handle.

It simply cannot keep up and the smaller sound buffer runs out, resulting in the sound drop-out.

What is the specification of your computer? (Processor type and speed)

Dual-core 2Ghz or faster is strongly recommended.

A fresh installation of Windows preferably from an OEM disk will also help if the issue is being caused by unnecessary additional software often installed on most PC's (Bloatware.) Install only the operating system, appropriate drivers for your computer's hardware, your ASIO sound card and VirtualDJ. However, a fresh installation cannot make a CPU that is too slow any faster.
 
jpboggis wrote :
What is the specification of your computer? (Processor type and speed)

Dual-core 2Ghz or faster is strongly recommended.

A fresh installation of Windows preferably from an OEM disk will also help if the issue is being caused by unnecessary additional software often installed on most PC's (Bloatware.) Install only the operating system, appropriate drivers for your computer's hardware, your ASIO sound card and VirtualDJ. However, a fresh installation cannot make a CPU that is too slow any faster.


It is a intel core 2 duo, T9400 2.53Ghz, intel Pm45 chipset. 4Gb of DDR2 RAM, windows 7 ultimate 64bit. I also did the enable 2nd core shown in one of the threads here. I did it and it seemed to work a little. I dont know if it works...

1 thing i read up on was that if you take the battery out while the PC is plugged in it permanently reduces clock speed. Im not sure it was simply meant that the processor reduces speed while the battery is out.... This was on a MAC.

I have CPUID and it says its about 2.52Ghz when multiplier is on 9.5x and up to 2.65Ghz when multiplier is 10x, i don't think anything is wrong. FSB is 1064 average, real size is 1066.
 
In Windows Control panel -> Power you should set it to maximum performance / desktop PC. Set it to never turn off the monitor and harddisk or go to sleep.

Also, don't disable the 2nd core - VirtualDJ is a multi-threaded application and takes full advantage of multiple processors/cores.
 
The master tempo is great. I have just started it up on my PC's HD with everything on it, internet crankin and the master temp is holdin up sweet. Very happy wif this wouldn't have expected this. Since the days of accidentally leavin the master temp on and wonderin why the music is soundin.... on my dell d600. Wif a new PC and everything optimized and the master temp set up it is a dream. everything is in key. :-D
 


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