DJ Cyder
Is there a setting I'm missing somewhere, there is a very noticable difference in quality of playback in vdj versus winamp.
Posted Wed 07 Jul 04 @ 6:11 pm
apopsisdj
I dont know what happens ''inside'' vdj,
but using my knowledge i can tell you these :
Winamp just decode the encoded (mp3, etc) sound, no effects no real time dsp. Even the volume and pan sliders
affect the ''hardware'' mixer of the soundcard, its not internal processes.
Vdj and other dj and music production programs, are mixing
2 or more sounds together, add dsp, and volume processes,
and all these happens internal and affect the quality of the sound. And don't be fooled that digital has no loose of quality.
It has. Every single digital process in the chain (even volume)
affect the ''clarity'' and the quality of the sound.
Then it is the quality of the algorythms used in each program
to make the difference. Thats why cubase sx for example ''sound'' better from its older versions, and
''different'' from Sonar and logic for example.
As far i know Winamp uses the Frauhaufer algorithm for decode wich is the "standard" (and used by cubase/sonar/wavelab/soundforge/vegas etc..)
and i think Vdj uses lame (not sure about this) wich is one of the best.
To my opinion the sound of Vdj is very good when timescretching algorithm is disable.
BUT, when it is enable the sound is like corrupted to my ears,
and worst of all, it has a "time shift", you can hear the beats
not ''hitting'' at the right moment, in a random basis.
Or you can hear a ''smooth'' volume envelop on some beats,
or doubles (like a slight echo) again in random basis.
And if you try to beatmatch 2 songs even with the tempo
and pitch adjusted, you can hear some beats are in sync,
while others not (again random and slightly)
This is the reason i never use timescretching.
But i'm a Hercules console user for now, and just have the knowledge (and the ...ears.)
You and other full users can push the programmers to improve
the timescretching algorithm.
Talking about sound quality this is where to look.
Please try to ''hear'' what i have describe, and also compare
with other software/hardware.
Mixvibes, traktor, Pionners etc,are better on this,they can have other symptoms like a slightly flanger effect, but at least you can mix (no time drifts)
Let me know... (Cyder and others)
but using my knowledge i can tell you these :
Winamp just decode the encoded (mp3, etc) sound, no effects no real time dsp. Even the volume and pan sliders
affect the ''hardware'' mixer of the soundcard, its not internal processes.
Vdj and other dj and music production programs, are mixing
2 or more sounds together, add dsp, and volume processes,
and all these happens internal and affect the quality of the sound. And don't be fooled that digital has no loose of quality.
It has. Every single digital process in the chain (even volume)
affect the ''clarity'' and the quality of the sound.
Then it is the quality of the algorythms used in each program
to make the difference. Thats why cubase sx for example ''sound'' better from its older versions, and
''different'' from Sonar and logic for example.
As far i know Winamp uses the Frauhaufer algorithm for decode wich is the "standard" (and used by cubase/sonar/wavelab/soundforge/vegas etc..)
and i think Vdj uses lame (not sure about this) wich is one of the best.
To my opinion the sound of Vdj is very good when timescretching algorithm is disable.
BUT, when it is enable the sound is like corrupted to my ears,
and worst of all, it has a "time shift", you can hear the beats
not ''hitting'' at the right moment, in a random basis.
Or you can hear a ''smooth'' volume envelop on some beats,
or doubles (like a slight echo) again in random basis.
And if you try to beatmatch 2 songs even with the tempo
and pitch adjusted, you can hear some beats are in sync,
while others not (again random and slightly)
This is the reason i never use timescretching.
But i'm a Hercules console user for now, and just have the knowledge (and the ...ears.)
You and other full users can push the programmers to improve
the timescretching algorithm.
Talking about sound quality this is where to look.
Please try to ''hear'' what i have describe, and also compare
with other software/hardware.
Mixvibes, traktor, Pionners etc,are better on this,they can have other symptoms like a slightly flanger effect, but at least you can mix (no time drifts)
Let me know... (Cyder and others)
Posted Sat 10 Jul 04 @ 3:20 pm
djbambi
apopsis, I totally agree, I've disabled time stretching for months now primarily for sound quality, but also for system performance reasons.
The way I picture it is: when it's disabled, changing the tempo just means feeding the bits faster or slower, a simple thing for a computer to do and the closest thing to vinyl emulation (the vinyl speeds up, the neddle picks up signals from the groove faster).
However when the time-stretching feature is on, a complex algorithm has to be applied to attempt to keep the pitch (a pretty human and cognitive concept) sounding similar to the human ear, so that for example Barry White's voice doesn't turn into the BeeGees :) Add to this the algorithm for the EQ and FXs, and my Pentium 3 is on its knees (for example, the EQ knobs on the screen react 1/2 second after I tweek them on the console).
So I've given up on time-stretching, as it's not that important for me: I don't spin much vocals, and when I do I keep them within 3-4% of the original tempo, the way I did on vinyl, and I change the tempo gradually so that it's transparent to the listener.
Nicolas
The way I picture it is: when it's disabled, changing the tempo just means feeding the bits faster or slower, a simple thing for a computer to do and the closest thing to vinyl emulation (the vinyl speeds up, the neddle picks up signals from the groove faster).
However when the time-stretching feature is on, a complex algorithm has to be applied to attempt to keep the pitch (a pretty human and cognitive concept) sounding similar to the human ear, so that for example Barry White's voice doesn't turn into the BeeGees :) Add to this the algorithm for the EQ and FXs, and my Pentium 3 is on its knees (for example, the EQ knobs on the screen react 1/2 second after I tweek them on the console).
So I've given up on time-stretching, as it's not that important for me: I don't spin much vocals, and when I do I keep them within 3-4% of the original tempo, the way I did on vinyl, and I change the tempo gradually so that it's transparent to the listener.
Nicolas
Posted Sat 10 Jul 04 @ 9:21 pm
discotronic
think so too-but it`s the same with cd-players i realised.better no streching at all if you like to have soundquality
Posted Sun 11 Jul 04 @ 4:59 pm