anewsome
Please keep in mind, this list has absolutely nothing to do with Virtual DJ,.. well that and it's also pretty dang long. Sorry about that.
I've had my Technics DZ1200 for about 3 weeks now I guess, and I've been using them with TCCD. Still haven't played out with them yet though, been using my broken XP10 for gigs still. The DZ1200 are one of those unbelievably awesome products that make you stop and wonder: "Why did the designers come this far and stop so short of making it a *really* good product". It's also one of those DJ products that make me wonder if ANY of the designers are working DJs.
So now that I've gotten to know the DZ1200 pretty intimately, I think I can post about what's wrong with them, with a little authority on the topic. This is not an exhaustive list by any means, just a few things that irk me about the DZ1200s. Also note that nearly every single one of these issues is addressed in either the Denon or Pioneer players. And the list:
* BPM not read from ID3 tag if it is present. - My post earlier in this forum stated the BPM would be read. I've verified that it certainly is not. The DZ1200 ignores the tag and analyzes the file everytime. Not very acurately, I'll add - but then that would go for all BPM analyzers.
* No BPM tap or way to overide the anylyzed BPM - The Denon clearly has a BPM tap right on the top panel, in case it gets it wrong. Are they only designers who thought DJs might need this?
* "Digital" scratch sound when using standard audio CD - This is bizzare, since using an mp3 disk will produce a pretty realistic scratch sound (except with pitch lock on).
* "Digital" scratch sound when pitch lock is on - Obviously Denon figured out how to do this right. Why can't anyone else?
* No track remaning or track progress indicator on mp3 files - Again,... why? Is this really that hard to implement?
* No seperate output for sample pad - I'll say the sample pads are way cool, but they'd be a lot cooler if they had a seperate audio output in the back.
* No pitch bend - This one absolutely chaps my hide. Why in the world would they omit the pitch bend or some way to make small pitch adjustments. It's not like vinyl where you can grab the spindle with your thumb and forefinger and brake or twist to fine tune your mix. I find the only way to make small adjustments is to stab or drag at the platter to try and adjust your point. This is a real letdown.
* SD card does not store cue pad memories - These are saved to the internal memory only and there is a ridiculous 50 cd limit's worth of cue pad memories. With memory and storage as cheap as it is, this can not be a reasonable number of CDs to remember on an $800 device. This seems completely ridiculous and arbitrary.
* Can not play mp3 audio files from SD card - I was all excited to load up my two new 1GB SD cards with 150+ songs each, until I learned that you can not play mp3 files from SD card. You can only play "Secure DRM enabled SD Audio" from the card. The manual says you need the ($99) Technics SD Jukebox application in order to create these files. I haven't found another application that can do that, and even if I did, I doubt I would consider spending time encoding my files to *another* format.
* Braindead sample name scheme - When you save samples to the SD card you get a 3 digit + 5 char naming limit. Ar e you kidding me? What designer thought this was reasonable?
* No stutter cue - I keep re-reading the manual and I can't figure out how to make a the BIG cue button do stutter cue, like nearly every DJ cd player on the market. In order to do stutter cue like functionality, you'll need to use the 4 little cuepad buttons in the upper left.
* No way to turn off strobe light - It's been a long time since I was on a set of realy 1200's but if I recall correctly, you can turn off the strobe light. I know technics makes a huge deal about their patened stroboscobe, but seriously, I fail to see the usefulness of the strobe. It does look pretty cool though I guess.
* No way to assign a sample to the platter - Really disapointing. Also means there is no way to scratch a sample, etc.
* 4 sample pads, can only use two simultaneously. - It's pretty cool that you can use two sample pads at the same time. This lets me set a loop on one sample pad and use another for breaks, stabs, vocals, etc. If I could use all 4, then I could get even more creative with making remixes on the fly using only 4 little sample pad buttons. Imagine bassline on looped one pad, vocal stabs on another, drums and everything else looped on another.
* There is no "One Shot & Loop" capability for samples - You can loop the samples, which is nice. The "one shot" lets you use the sample put like a "looped stutter cue". This is currently not possible, although the manual does mention it - mistakenly.
I've had my Technics DZ1200 for about 3 weeks now I guess, and I've been using them with TCCD. Still haven't played out with them yet though, been using my broken XP10 for gigs still. The DZ1200 are one of those unbelievably awesome products that make you stop and wonder: "Why did the designers come this far and stop so short of making it a *really* good product". It's also one of those DJ products that make me wonder if ANY of the designers are working DJs.
So now that I've gotten to know the DZ1200 pretty intimately, I think I can post about what's wrong with them, with a little authority on the topic. This is not an exhaustive list by any means, just a few things that irk me about the DZ1200s. Also note that nearly every single one of these issues is addressed in either the Denon or Pioneer players. And the list:
* BPM not read from ID3 tag if it is present. - My post earlier in this forum stated the BPM would be read. I've verified that it certainly is not. The DZ1200 ignores the tag and analyzes the file everytime. Not very acurately, I'll add - but then that would go for all BPM analyzers.
* No BPM tap or way to overide the anylyzed BPM - The Denon clearly has a BPM tap right on the top panel, in case it gets it wrong. Are they only designers who thought DJs might need this?
* "Digital" scratch sound when using standard audio CD - This is bizzare, since using an mp3 disk will produce a pretty realistic scratch sound (except with pitch lock on).
* "Digital" scratch sound when pitch lock is on - Obviously Denon figured out how to do this right. Why can't anyone else?
* No track remaning or track progress indicator on mp3 files - Again,... why? Is this really that hard to implement?
* No seperate output for sample pad - I'll say the sample pads are way cool, but they'd be a lot cooler if they had a seperate audio output in the back.
* No pitch bend - This one absolutely chaps my hide. Why in the world would they omit the pitch bend or some way to make small pitch adjustments. It's not like vinyl where you can grab the spindle with your thumb and forefinger and brake or twist to fine tune your mix. I find the only way to make small adjustments is to stab or drag at the platter to try and adjust your point. This is a real letdown.
* SD card does not store cue pad memories - These are saved to the internal memory only and there is a ridiculous 50 cd limit's worth of cue pad memories. With memory and storage as cheap as it is, this can not be a reasonable number of CDs to remember on an $800 device. This seems completely ridiculous and arbitrary.
* Can not play mp3 audio files from SD card - I was all excited to load up my two new 1GB SD cards with 150+ songs each, until I learned that you can not play mp3 files from SD card. You can only play "Secure DRM enabled SD Audio" from the card. The manual says you need the ($99) Technics SD Jukebox application in order to create these files. I haven't found another application that can do that, and even if I did, I doubt I would consider spending time encoding my files to *another* format.
* Braindead sample name scheme - When you save samples to the SD card you get a 3 digit + 5 char naming limit. Ar e you kidding me? What designer thought this was reasonable?
* No stutter cue - I keep re-reading the manual and I can't figure out how to make a the BIG cue button do stutter cue, like nearly every DJ cd player on the market. In order to do stutter cue like functionality, you'll need to use the 4 little cuepad buttons in the upper left.
* No way to turn off strobe light - It's been a long time since I was on a set of realy 1200's but if I recall correctly, you can turn off the strobe light. I know technics makes a huge deal about their patened stroboscobe, but seriously, I fail to see the usefulness of the strobe. It does look pretty cool though I guess.
* No way to assign a sample to the platter - Really disapointing. Also means there is no way to scratch a sample, etc.
* 4 sample pads, can only use two simultaneously. - It's pretty cool that you can use two sample pads at the same time. This lets me set a loop on one sample pad and use another for breaks, stabs, vocals, etc. If I could use all 4, then I could get even more creative with making remixes on the fly using only 4 little sample pad buttons. Imagine bassline on looped one pad, vocal stabs on another, drums and everything else looped on another.
* There is no "One Shot & Loop" capability for samples - You can loop the samples, which is nice. The "one shot" lets you use the sample put like a "looped stutter cue". This is currently not possible, although the manual does mention it - mistakenly.
Posted Thu 18 Aug 05 @ 1:36 am
djbambi
Much thanks for this review. I encourage you to forward it to Technics, maybe someone out there will take the hint, maybe some of those issues can be fixed by firmware upgrades.
about pitch bend, I thought the engine was the same as on the 1200s. doesn't touching the side of the platter or pinching the spindle work for bending down? doesn't peting the record in circles in a forward motion work for bending up?
about the strobe: on the old 1200s, you can push the light down to turn it off. having it on is usefull as you can fine tune pitch visually if needed (the little dots move faster or slower, or don't move at all at zero pitch)
again, thanks for this review. they do look freaking good though :)
about pitch bend, I thought the engine was the same as on the 1200s. doesn't touching the side of the platter or pinching the spindle work for bending down? doesn't peting the record in circles in a forward motion work for bending up?
about the strobe: on the old 1200s, you can push the light down to turn it off. having it on is usefull as you can fine tune pitch visually if needed (the little dots move faster or slower, or don't move at all at zero pitch)
again, thanks for this review. they do look freaking good though :)
Posted Thu 18 Aug 05 @ 8:24 am
djbambi
oops sorry, I got confused and confusing.
it's not the strobe light you can push down and turn off in the 1200 mk2, it's the actual light (the one that lets you see where you drop the needle in dark environments, or if there's crap on your record). the strobe light under the on/off switch cannot be turned off.
Nicolas
(selling my 1200 mk2s four years ago was one of the stupidest things I ever did)
it's not the strobe light you can push down and turn off in the 1200 mk2, it's the actual light (the one that lets you see where you drop the needle in dark environments, or if there's crap on your record). the strobe light under the on/off switch cannot be turned off.
Nicolas
(selling my 1200 mk2s four years ago was one of the stupidest things I ever did)
Posted Thu 18 Aug 05 @ 9:51 am
listen2
maybe that's the reason they started at $$1400-1200 and now sell for $800 :( i don't think they sold well, anyways i still think that if you were using those with VDJ many of the issues would be solved, but if used solo that might get in the way of the mix if not skilled in the art of control.
Posted Thu 18 Aug 05 @ 2:34 pm
blazemonger
I said this before.. the SL-DZ 1200 is not a CD player, it's a digital turntable.. It handles like that too.. if you want a CD player there's denon and Pioneer..
I do agree the scratchsound is not the best around, and the robotic sound when using timestretch is just ridiculous and obvious a big issue which slipped by.. I am led to believe there is a firmware upgrade fixing this. My main issue with these is the long load time.. and the fact it only handles mp3s upto 128 kps well..
I do agree the scratchsound is not the best around, and the robotic sound when using timestretch is just ridiculous and obvious a big issue which slipped by.. I am led to believe there is a firmware upgrade fixing this. My main issue with these is the long load time.. and the fact it only handles mp3s upto 128 kps well..
Posted Thu 18 Aug 05 @ 11:58 pm
bagpuss
Sounds pretty poor, but has the looks.., and to think I saw lou Vega useing these..
Posted Fri 19 Aug 05 @ 12:11 am
anewsome
I think you guys missed the point. I love these things. I think they are probably the 3rd best digital turntable out there. Right behind the Pioneer and the Denon. I just couldn't believe that the designers didn't go the extra step to make it at leas AS good as the Pioneer or Denon,.. especially considering those to decks had already set the mark and the Technics came out AFTER those decks.
Maybe I should have posted a lengthy post about everything that is *right* with the Technics. However, since I made the post above, I been reading on some other forums about what other people have encountered. There are numerous gripes but mine are echoed from many other users.
My perfect digital turntable would start with some features that would combine the best of all three really:
- direct drive kickass platter and high torque motor of the DZ1200
- seperate audio outputs for sample pads from the denon
- ability to tap out your bpm like the denon
- ditch the strobe and dots on the platter edge and put an independently rotating jog wheel for fine adjustments (like the edge of the XP10 or CDJ1000).
Now we might start talking about the ultimate digital turntable. I think the independent shuttle ring around the rotating platter would be the coolest. I prefer fine adjustments with the ring much more than pitch bend buttons.
Maybe I should have posted a lengthy post about everything that is *right* with the Technics. However, since I made the post above, I been reading on some other forums about what other people have encountered. There are numerous gripes but mine are echoed from many other users.
My perfect digital turntable would start with some features that would combine the best of all three really:
- direct drive kickass platter and high torque motor of the DZ1200
- seperate audio outputs for sample pads from the denon
- ability to tap out your bpm like the denon
- ditch the strobe and dots on the platter edge and put an independently rotating jog wheel for fine adjustments (like the edge of the XP10 or CDJ1000).
Now we might start talking about the ultimate digital turntable. I think the independent shuttle ring around the rotating platter would be the coolest. I prefer fine adjustments with the ring much more than pitch bend buttons.
Posted Fri 19 Aug 05 @ 2:03 am