Ryan0751
I see in the documentation examples for using two Denon SC6000s in HID mode to control the 4 virtual decks using the layer controls on the deck.
Just curious, but if one has 4 Denon SC6000 media players, will VirtualDJ support all 4 physical media players in HID mode?
Just curious, but if one has 4 Denon SC6000 media players, will VirtualDJ support all 4 physical media players in HID mode?
Posted Mon 09 Jan 23 @ 2:38 pm
the SOUND INSURGENT
I dont have the 6000's but i do have a set of 5000m's with a set of LC 6000's and all work with no problems using VDJ.
So im sure itll work with 4 6000's.
So im sure itll work with 4 6000's.
Posted Mon 09 Jan 23 @ 2:51 pm
Ryan0751
Yeah, I have 2 SC6000s and 2 LC6000s now. I've been flirting with the idea of selling the LC6000s and getting 2 additional SC6000s.
I haven't committed to the plan, yet. It might be overkill lol :)
I haven't committed to the plan, yet. It might be overkill lol :)
Posted Mon 09 Jan 23 @ 2:58 pm
Ryan0751
I ended up pulling the trigger and got the SC6000Ms.
Unfortunately, VirtualDJ doesn't work correctly with all 4 players in HID mode.
While they will connect, the UI becomes unusable slow, laggy, and in some cases completely unresponsive.
This isn't a CPU issue, I am using a M1 Max 64GB MBP.
Unfortunately, VirtualDJ doesn't work correctly with all 4 players in HID mode.
While they will connect, the UI becomes unusable slow, laggy, and in some cases completely unresponsive.
This isn't a CPU issue, I am using a M1 Max 64GB MBP.
Posted Sun 15 Jan 23 @ 9:09 pm
angelicodin
Ryan0751 wrote :
I ended up pulling the trigger and got the SC6000Ms.
Unfortunately, VirtualDJ doesn't work correctly with all 4 players in HID mode.
While they will connect, the UI becomes unusable slow, laggy, and in some cases completely unresponsive.
This isn't a CPU issue, I am using a M1 Max 64GB MBP.
Unfortunately, VirtualDJ doesn't work correctly with all 4 players in HID mode.
While they will connect, the UI becomes unusable slow, laggy, and in some cases completely unresponsive.
This isn't a CPU issue, I am using a M1 Max 64GB MBP.
I'd disagree to a point.
This is a two fold, maybe three fold problem.
First let's talk about the CPU. The M1 Max is... good but not great, also it's a different architecture than an x86/64 platform so the compile and utilization of the code is very different. If we need an apples to apples(ish) of this we can just look to places like this:
https://www.cpubenchmark.net/compare/4585vs2969vs3493vs5027vs4597/Apple-M1-Max-10-Core-3200-MHz-vs-AMD-Ryzen-7-1700X-vs-AMD-Ryzen-9-3900X-vs-AMD-Ryzen-9-7900X-vs-Intel-i9-12900K
Mind you it's not a full good metric to go by as there are a lot of other factors in this, like GPU and system bus speed, and IPC, USB interface and what not. Trying to generalize.
The other two things to this is the Skin you are using along with waveform type/size, and the Denon API with it's limits on processing.
That being said, there is A LOT of room for it to improve for sure, but we have to be realistic and will be up to Denon and VDJ in getting that better and to play nice with multiple cpu architecture types.
I personally use SC6000s and I love them.
Posted Sun 15 Jan 23 @ 11:01 pm
Ryan0751
I meant that it’s not apparently a CPU issue in that in this laggy state, it’s not anywhere near close to pegging the CPU.
I’ve tried this again, even plugging one of the decks directly into the MBP to ensure it’s not something in the USB hub chain.
The UI when you add a 3rd SC6000 gets pretty wonky, with elements disappearing.
So I am not sure what is going on. This might be something on the SW side as well.
It’s not a HUGE deal, I can just turn two of my decks off and use the layer buttons on the remaining decks, but it would be super cool to have 4 deck HID working.
I’ve tried this again, even plugging one of the decks directly into the MBP to ensure it’s not something in the USB hub chain.
The UI when you add a 3rd SC6000 gets pretty wonky, with elements disappearing.
So I am not sure what is going on. This might be something on the SW side as well.
It’s not a HUGE deal, I can just turn two of my decks off and use the layer buttons on the remaining decks, but it would be super cool to have 4 deck HID working.
Posted Mon 16 Jan 23 @ 2:12 am
the SOUND INSURGENT
Ryan0751 wrote :
I meant that it’s not apparently a CPU issue in that in this laggy state, it’s not anywhere near close to pegging the CPU.
I’ve tried this again, even plugging one of the decks directly into the MBP to ensure it’s not something in the USB hub chain.
The UI when you add a 3rd SC6000 gets pretty wonky, with elements disappearing.
So I am not sure what is going on. This might be something on the SW side as well.
It’s not a HUGE deal, I can just turn two of my decks off and use the layer buttons on the remaining decks, but it would be super cool to have 4 deck HID working.
I’ve tried this again, even plugging one of the decks directly into the MBP to ensure it’s not something in the USB hub chain.
The UI when you add a 3rd SC6000 gets pretty wonky, with elements disappearing.
So I am not sure what is going on. This might be something on the SW side as well.
It’s not a HUGE deal, I can just turn two of my decks off and use the layer buttons on the remaining decks, but it would be super cool to have 4 deck HID working.
Something must be going on somewhere, I can hook up a set of 5000m's with a set of 3700's and I have no problems with a 2020 MacBook Pro M1.
Posted Mon 16 Jan 23 @ 11:23 am
Ryan0751
Well I had no issue with 2 SC6000s and 2 LC6000s either.
With 4 SC6000s however, VirtualDJ has to drive 4 big giant HID screens. I will reach out to support to see what they say.
With 4 SC6000s however, VirtualDJ has to drive 4 big giant HID screens. I will reach out to support to see what they say.
Posted Mon 16 Jan 23 @ 11:30 am
djdad
First of all, to avoid any misunderstanding, there is no HID mode for the Denon DJ devices. Probably many think it's a protocol similar to the Pioneer CDJ - which indeed follow the HID protocol for their screens.
Denon has written their own communication protocol (SDK) to feed the screens with data, which unfortunately is very slow in refreshing, and it's the main reason why the other supported software doesnt even display scratch waveforms on the Denon screens.
We dont have 4 SC devices to test here, so not sure what to advise. Perhaps you could start troubleshooting and see if better using some other USB hub, different USB cables, connect one by one and see where the problem starts.
One workaround would be to avoid having many large waveforms updated, so try the view with the Pads/Shortcuts visible (less waveform height), and avoid having the view with the Master+Deck wave.
I assume it's just a visual issue (screens lag) , you dont have any audio issue or delay in response when you mix, right ?
Denon has written their own communication protocol (SDK) to feed the screens with data, which unfortunately is very slow in refreshing, and it's the main reason why the other supported software doesnt even display scratch waveforms on the Denon screens.
We dont have 4 SC devices to test here, so not sure what to advise. Perhaps you could start troubleshooting and see if better using some other USB hub, different USB cables, connect one by one and see where the problem starts.
One workaround would be to avoid having many large waveforms updated, so try the view with the Pads/Shortcuts visible (less waveform height), and avoid having the view with the Master+Deck wave.
I assume it's just a visual issue (screens lag) , you dont have any audio issue or delay in response when you mix, right ?
Posted Mon 16 Jan 23 @ 12:47 pm
Ryan0751
No audio issues, but the problem is not just screen lag.
That is interesting you said Denon uses an SDK and not just HID. It feels (as a SW engineer myself) like a SW bug, and not just latency as things seem to "break" in the UI.
I can record a quick YouTube video this week to show what I mean.
I have experimented with hooking the decks up directly (using Apple USB-C to USB type A adapters) my MBP TB4 ports, and it still happens. So I don't think it's my CalDigit dock or Amazon USB hub.
That is interesting you said Denon uses an SDK and not just HID. It feels (as a SW engineer myself) like a SW bug, and not just latency as things seem to "break" in the UI.
I can record a quick YouTube video this week to show what I mean.
I have experimented with hooking the decks up directly (using Apple USB-C to USB type A adapters) my MBP TB4 ports, and it still happens. So I don't think it's my CalDigit dock or Amazon USB hub.
Posted Mon 16 Jan 23 @ 11:02 pm
Ryan0751
Here is a short YouTube video I made which demonstrates what I am seeing:
https://youtu.be/pNrg1nGFKHc
https://youtu.be/pNrg1nGFKHc
Posted Tue 17 Jan 23 @ 8:07 pm
IIDEEJAYII
It's also interesting that when you show the laggy display on the SC6000 at 2:07, the VDJ software screen is identically laggy/staccato.
Great video of issue !
Great video of issue !
Posted Tue 17 Jan 23 @ 8:32 pm
the SOUND INSURGENT
Does it do this when you start them up at the same time vs hot swapping them.
I can get some weird behavior as well when I have VDJ running and then try to connect the 2 LC's. My screen have done some weird stuff similar to this.
And those Caldigits aren't the best.
But I dont work for VDJ so we'll see what they say. Nice Setup tho!!
I can get some weird behavior as well when I have VDJ running and then try to connect the 2 LC's. My screen have done some weird stuff similar to this.
And those Caldigits aren't the best.
But I dont work for VDJ so we'll see what they say. Nice Setup tho!!
Posted Tue 17 Jan 23 @ 10:51 pm
Ryan0751
Yeah, starting them up at the same time is the same result. That’s how I started.
I have had nothing but great luck with my CalDigit TS3 and TS4! I’ve been using the TS3s for years.
I have had nothing but great luck with my CalDigit TS3 and TS4! I’ve been using the TS3s for years.
Posted Tue 17 Jan 23 @ 11:21 pm