sidneysides
Generally loving my Prime 4 but have an issue with my sound - let me explain… Myself and another DJ both DJ in a large party room in a late night bar. We use the same cables, same MODEL of speaker (although a different set - RCF 715a) and same subs. Before I go on, yes the issue COULD be the actual speakers, but as far as I can tell, nothing is wrong with them. We both use Virtual DJ - he uses a basic Windows laptop with generic USB cable, I use a 3 year old Macbook Pro with what i would consider to be a premium USB cable.
I will sometimes pop into the room towards the end of the night and I’m blown away with how smooth his sound is. The bass is easily picked out by the subs and it just sounds ‘smooth’. Mine on the other hand sounds more muddy and harsh. He has his EQs set at 12 o clock and never touches them.
The main difference? He is using a Pioneer XDJ-RX2 and I use a Prime 4. I used to have a Pioneer and can’t remember ever having an issue either.
I know many might say test his speakers and mine with my equipment - I will if I get chance - but could it be an issue with the Prime 4? The internal sound card maybe? The issue is just really highlighted when I hear his sound quality.
The only other setting I can think of that I have different to his is that I have ZeroDB set at -6 where his is at 0. Can the -6 setting actually lower the sound quality? Maybe lose dynamic range? I always just thought it gave yo more headroom but didn't think that it would alter the sound in any way?
I will sometimes pop into the room towards the end of the night and I’m blown away with how smooth his sound is. The bass is easily picked out by the subs and it just sounds ‘smooth’. Mine on the other hand sounds more muddy and harsh. He has his EQs set at 12 o clock and never touches them.
The main difference? He is using a Pioneer XDJ-RX2 and I use a Prime 4. I used to have a Pioneer and can’t remember ever having an issue either.
I know many might say test his speakers and mine with my equipment - I will if I get chance - but could it be an issue with the Prime 4? The internal sound card maybe? The issue is just really highlighted when I hear his sound quality.
The only other setting I can think of that I have different to his is that I have ZeroDB set at -6 where his is at 0. Can the -6 setting actually lower the sound quality? Maybe lose dynamic range? I always just thought it gave yo more headroom but didn't think that it would alter the sound in any way?
Posted Sun 31 Oct 21 @ 2:03 pm
kradcliffe
Not sure if it's worth trying but I had read that some Denon players had a difference in sound between different outputs. I'm guessing you use balanced XLR (which is the best way) but have you tried the RCA out to see if there's any difference? Technically the balanced XLR should offer better output than RCA but with Denon you never know ...... Denon gear can have a lot of design and quality issues.
I don't recall anyone else mentioning this particuar thing though.
I'm perfectly happy with the XLR out on my MCX8000 but the Prime 4 is a completely different beast.
The zeroDB setting in VDJ doesn't change the quality of the sound output at all.
I don't recall anyone else mentioning this particuar thing though.
I'm perfectly happy with the XLR out on my MCX8000 but the Prime 4 is a completely different beast.
The zeroDB setting in VDJ doesn't change the quality of the sound output at all.
Posted Sun 31 Oct 21 @ 6:05 pm
sidneysides
Yes I am using the balanced xlr. Someone else mentioned that they had better sound from the RCA so will give that a try. If so that is poor from Denon on a £1500 flagship
Posted Sun 31 Oct 21 @ 6:49 pm
kradcliffe
It's just a process of elimination, however with what you're saying then yes ... there could be an issue with the XLR output at high volumes.
If that is the case then that's not on for such a high end product, but then Denon aren't the Denon of old either now. They took absolutely ages to sort the SC5000 high frequency rolloff and never even actually fixed it properly either.
I'll do some testing with my MCX8000 tomorrow as I noticed last night I was getting some bass distortion when cranking it up a bit, so it's funny you've mentioned this too.
Quite a lot of Prime 4s been on eBay lately so maybe that tells it's own story.
If that is the case then that's not on for such a high end product, but then Denon aren't the Denon of old either now. They took absolutely ages to sort the SC5000 high frequency rolloff and never even actually fixed it properly either.
I'll do some testing with my MCX8000 tomorrow as I noticed last night I was getting some bass distortion when cranking it up a bit, so it's funny you've mentioned this too.
Quite a lot of Prime 4s been on eBay lately so maybe that tells it's own story.
Posted Sun 31 Oct 21 @ 7:00 pm
sidneysides
Thank mate - be interested to see if you get the same!
Posted Mon 01 Nov 21 @ 9:47 am
kradcliffe
Just about to set up now ..... report back soon!
Posted Mon 01 Nov 21 @ 9:58 am
sidneysides
I can't test until tomorrow night - be interesting if you could compare XLR and RCA on your system too!
Posted Mon 01 Nov 21 @ 10:16 am
kradcliffe
OK, set up my MCX8000 with VDJ as the source. Using autogain and zeroDB at -3. Lenovo C940 running Windows 10 Pro and Denon ASIO drivers.
Tested the master out (XLR), booth out (XLR) and line out (RCA) in to a Technics SU-V90D amplifier with Sennheiser HD25 headphones.
Tracks used were Eric Prydz - Pjanoo and Sonique - It feels so good.
My findigs are that there is no distortion or muddy sound when output levels are pushed up. At gigs I feed in to a Bose F1 system where the booth out goes to the tops and the master out to the subs through XLR .... generally set at 12 0'clock on the controller outputs.
I tested a combination of the outputs with the master and booth volumes at 12 o'clock then again at full. The peak output meter at full was flashing the 10db LED (I would never ever go that far anyway) but there was no difference in clarity or distortion whether at a low or indeed a high output level.
Of course the Prime 4 could be completely different so it will be interesting to see what hapens with your setup tomorrow. Other thing to note is that the prime 4 doesn't have autogain for the standalone side of things and also the Mac may process the sound completely differently to a PC as it uses core audio rather than ASIO.
If needs must I could always test with my Macbook Pro but I never ever use the Mac side and just have it permanently bootcamped.
Tested the master out (XLR), booth out (XLR) and line out (RCA) in to a Technics SU-V90D amplifier with Sennheiser HD25 headphones.
Tracks used were Eric Prydz - Pjanoo and Sonique - It feels so good.
My findigs are that there is no distortion or muddy sound when output levels are pushed up. At gigs I feed in to a Bose F1 system where the booth out goes to the tops and the master out to the subs through XLR .... generally set at 12 0'clock on the controller outputs.
I tested a combination of the outputs with the master and booth volumes at 12 o'clock then again at full. The peak output meter at full was flashing the 10db LED (I would never ever go that far anyway) but there was no difference in clarity or distortion whether at a low or indeed a high output level.
Of course the Prime 4 could be completely different so it will be interesting to see what hapens with your setup tomorrow. Other thing to note is that the prime 4 doesn't have autogain for the standalone side of things and also the Mac may process the sound completely differently to a PC as it uses core audio rather than ASIO.
If needs must I could always test with my Macbook Pro but I never ever use the Mac side and just have it permanently bootcamped.
Posted Mon 01 Nov 21 @ 11:53 am
sidneysides
Thanks for your detailed response!- any reason why you bootcamp your Mac and use that over the Mac side of things? Or do you just mean in general rather than for DJ software.
Really appreciate your help, thanks!
Really appreciate your help, thanks!
Posted Mon 01 Nov 21 @ 12:08 pm
kradcliffe
Just don't like MacOS at all.
I bought the 16" Macbook for video editing as it's a speedy machine but never use it for my DJ work. I tested both Adobe Premiere Elements and Handbrake and they were both quicker on the Windows side. I also don't like the Mac version of VDJ either .... just seems far clunkier than the Windows one.
I bought the 16" Macbook for video editing as it's a speedy machine but never use it for my DJ work. I tested both Adobe Premiere Elements and Handbrake and they were both quicker on the Windows side. I also don't like the Mac version of VDJ either .... just seems far clunkier than the Windows one.
Posted Mon 01 Nov 21 @ 12:12 pm
sidneysides
Sorry, do you use VDJ on Windows with your Denon gear?
Posted Mon 01 Nov 21 @ 2:15 pm
kradcliffe
Yes
Posted Mon 01 Nov 21 @ 2:40 pm
groovindj
@SIDNEYSIDES are you both DJing in the same room on different nights? You mention "popping in" to the room, so I'm just wondering if you each have a separate room and it's the acoustics that's affecting the sound.
If it's the same room, do you both set up in exactly the same place?
I think you need to do some experimenting. Try the Prime 4 standalone to see if it makes a difference. Try and arrange to swap speakers with him for one night.
Are you sure he's not using any kind of plugins or processing in VDJ or between the RX2 and the speakers?
If it's the same room, do you both set up in exactly the same place?
I think you need to do some experimenting. Try the Prime 4 standalone to see if it makes a difference. Try and arrange to swap speakers with him for one night.
Are you sure he's not using any kind of plugins or processing in VDJ or between the RX2 and the speakers?
Posted Mon 01 Nov 21 @ 6:24 pm
sidneysides
groovindj wrote :
@SIDNEYSIDES are you both DJing in the same room on different nights? You mention "popping in" to the room, so I'm just wondering if you each have a separate room and it's the acoustics that's affecting the sound.
If it's the same room, do you both set up in exactly the same place?
I think you need to do some experimenting. Try the Prime 4 standalone to see if it makes a difference. Try and arrange to swap speakers with him for one night.
Are you sure he's not using any kind of plugins or processing in VDJ or between the RX2 and the speakers?
If it's the same room, do you both set up in exactly the same place?
I think you need to do some experimenting. Try the Prime 4 standalone to see if it makes a difference. Try and arrange to swap speakers with him for one night.
Are you sure he's not using any kind of plugins or processing in VDJ or between the RX2 and the speakers?
Hi
Yes same room, same speaker placement, same everything really. No plugins or processors. I'm hopefully going over tonight to do some A/B testing with speakers, controllers, cables, windows/mac.....
Posted Mon 01 Nov 21 @ 6:44 pm
sidneysides
Ok so did a bit of testing tonight. Probably had it at about 70% or normal volume so was enough to test. Tested both sets of speakers and there was no difference between them so speakers are Ok.
Tested the RX2 with Balanced XLR vs the same in the Prime 4. The RX2 did sound smoother across the board. The Prime 4 was more (slightly) bright and harsh in the mids and tops, as if the sound was too 'hot'.
I then tested the Prime 4 XLR balanced vs RCA. The RCA to my ears and the other DJs ears sounded less harsh and smoother, more akin to the RX2 sound.
So to our ears, the XLR output on the Prime 4 is not as good as either the XLR on the RX2 or the RCA on the Prime 4 itself. I can continue with RCA output to keep my ears happy, although you do introduce buzz and interference at low levels, but if this is the case, it's not good for a flagship product from Denon to have this potential issue.
Tested the RX2 with Balanced XLR vs the same in the Prime 4. The RX2 did sound smoother across the board. The Prime 4 was more (slightly) bright and harsh in the mids and tops, as if the sound was too 'hot'.
I then tested the Prime 4 XLR balanced vs RCA. The RCA to my ears and the other DJs ears sounded less harsh and smoother, more akin to the RX2 sound.
So to our ears, the XLR output on the Prime 4 is not as good as either the XLR on the RX2 or the RCA on the Prime 4 itself. I can continue with RCA output to keep my ears happy, although you do introduce buzz and interference at low levels, but if this is the case, it's not good for a flagship product from Denon to have this potential issue.
Posted Mon 01 Nov 21 @ 11:24 pm
kradcliffe
You need to bring this up on the Denon forum. I doubt they will do anything about it though, and even if they could it would take years.
Watch out for the usual fanboys on there like Nitebeatz (and his other usernames) who will make up any excuse to defend Denon whilst blaming your ears, power supply, colour of your underpants etc. People like him are the reason I don't even contribute on there any more.
You could also try submitting a support ticket to Denon but these generally get ignored as well.
Watch out for the usual fanboys on there like Nitebeatz (and his other usernames) who will make up any excuse to defend Denon whilst blaming your ears, power supply, colour of your underpants etc. People like him are the reason I don't even contribute on there any more.
You could also try submitting a support ticket to Denon but these generally get ignored as well.
Posted Tue 02 Nov 21 @ 8:09 am