Soundboyrich
Does virtual DJ playback 24bit 192kHz WAV or FLAC files?
Why some may ask. Back in 2007, I went from vinyl to HD and skipped CDs. My Music library is 80% mp3 but my original vinyl was transferred at 16bit 48kHz. I will redo all vinyl to 24bit 192kHz FLAC.
I have not found any DJ software that will do that as yet. Lots of DJ software menu setting cannot set 192kHz, most stop at 96KHz. Can I hear a difference? Because today, I have a better cartridge, better AD/DA converter and a better recording software today compared to 2007.
Why some may ask. Back in 2007, I went from vinyl to HD and skipped CDs. My Music library is 80% mp3 but my original vinyl was transferred at 16bit 48kHz. I will redo all vinyl to 24bit 192kHz FLAC.
I have not found any DJ software that will do that as yet. Lots of DJ software menu setting cannot set 192kHz, most stop at 96KHz. Can I hear a difference? Because today, I have a better cartridge, better AD/DA converter and a better recording software today compared to 2007.
Posted Sun 10 May 20 @ 1:45 am
Adion
Yes, VirtualDJ will play them, but no, you will not be able to hear the difference.
Even the best human ears can't hear frequencies much higher than 20kHz, so a sample rate of 44.1kHz is sufficient to represent all the frequencies a human can hear.
Also, vinyl records are not capable of capturing such high frequencies, and most cartridges, amplifiers and speakers are not capable of playing them either.
Great video on the subject: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIQ9IXSUzuM
Similarly, 24-bit can have its use in recording studios when you record individual parts at varying volumes, but for the final mix it is not required either.
It represents a dynamic range of 144dB. This is enough to play the quietest sound you could possibly hear, and the sound of a nearby jet engine or gun shot in the same recording. Not something that you'll likely encounter or even want in normal music.
(For comparison, 16-bit allows for 96dB of dynamic range, and vinyl is estimated to have a dynamic range of only about 60dB (although that is a bit dependent on the specific frequencies and further degrades the more you play the record)
Even the best human ears can't hear frequencies much higher than 20kHz, so a sample rate of 44.1kHz is sufficient to represent all the frequencies a human can hear.
Also, vinyl records are not capable of capturing such high frequencies, and most cartridges, amplifiers and speakers are not capable of playing them either.
Great video on the subject: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIQ9IXSUzuM
Similarly, 24-bit can have its use in recording studios when you record individual parts at varying volumes, but for the final mix it is not required either.
It represents a dynamic range of 144dB. This is enough to play the quietest sound you could possibly hear, and the sound of a nearby jet engine or gun shot in the same recording. Not something that you'll likely encounter or even want in normal music.
(For comparison, 16-bit allows for 96dB of dynamic range, and vinyl is estimated to have a dynamic range of only about 60dB (although that is a bit dependent on the specific frequencies and further degrades the more you play the record)
Posted Sun 10 May 20 @ 4:46 am
xylume
I use to record my vinyl to 24bit 192kHz WAV back in the early 00s. Years later, with an Alesis ML-9600 (which sounded better than my M-Audio Interface) I changed my recordings to 24bit 88.2kHz so that I could bounce them down to 16bit 44.1 WAV, FLAC or MP3 and I was happy with the results. I still have my record collection and digital recordings and I've found that vinyl records collected a lot of grime, dust, and dirt. I tried cleaning them with a brush/pads and then using GruvGlide to clear the static which helped, but they still didn't sound full and as clean as I wanted them to be, but I was happy to save some old classics.
I was able to play my 24bit recordings with VDJ without any problems, but I've noticed if the dB's were too quiet in the recordings then VDJ's auto gain feature didn't give consistent and loud enough results. I since then have used iZotope's Ozone 9 to maximize my levels with IRC2 and that helped a lot.
Things that made a massive difference for me was to use a rubber mat instead of slipmat to minimize the platter noise. Using Elliptical Styli cartridges instead of Spherical ones, but I found I had to re-record each song so many times to clear the extra clicks and pops and re-cleaning them again for the final recording. Most of my records were clean, in their sleeves, and some brand new and almost in mint condition.
I then realized that so many frequencies were missing from my vinyl records due to the way the groove and styli make contact. The highs were lacking, the bass missing and the vocals sounded off, somethings the Right channel was louder than then Left channel and that annoying harsh "S" sound that needed de-essing, which causes more of the vocals to be lost in the process.
The audio interface also played a significant role since some interfaces seem to give all of your recordings a similar sound. I even opted for a Dynasty ProAudio UA2D phono pre-amp interface with input gain and monitor level to bypass a DJ mixer to avoid more of that filtered sound out of the recordings. I also tried better audio interfaces to see what difference there might be and I prefer ones that don't color or sound like there's a cold metallic filter going through your music.
I then realized my vinyl collection's better suited for background music or for sampling short 8 or 16 bar loops which I could then warp using Ableton Live 10's Complex Pro algorithm. I use to warp just the phrase that I would mix out of, like Intro, Chorus, and Outro only, and I even blended them with my MP3, MP4, and lossless audio collection a few times which I thought was cool. Other DJs told me to just leave my vinyl out of my DJ mixes unless it's going to be purely all vinyl.
After all of that money spent and countless hours of sweat and sleepless nights, I've finally let my old classics go and I've converted 100% to all digital mp3s, mp4s, and lossless files, like ALAC, OGG, FLAC and more. I prefer the sound a lot more now, but I do miss those rare relics, white labels, and party breaks.
I'm not giving up on my vinyl records and I still enjoy re-living that old feel of rare vintage music and I'm planning on keeping my entire collection (some recorded and some just in crates waiting for a day). I'm going to use my old vinyl as production inspiration and I'll sample and warp them to the beat grid for mashups, bootlegs, and hype edits if I can salvage a clean enough recording that blends well with digital audio using high-quality VSTs. Good luck and Peace!
I was able to play my 24bit recordings with VDJ without any problems, but I've noticed if the dB's were too quiet in the recordings then VDJ's auto gain feature didn't give consistent and loud enough results. I since then have used iZotope's Ozone 9 to maximize my levels with IRC2 and that helped a lot.
Things that made a massive difference for me was to use a rubber mat instead of slipmat to minimize the platter noise. Using Elliptical Styli cartridges instead of Spherical ones, but I found I had to re-record each song so many times to clear the extra clicks and pops and re-cleaning them again for the final recording. Most of my records were clean, in their sleeves, and some brand new and almost in mint condition.
I then realized that so many frequencies were missing from my vinyl records due to the way the groove and styli make contact. The highs were lacking, the bass missing and the vocals sounded off, somethings the Right channel was louder than then Left channel and that annoying harsh "S" sound that needed de-essing, which causes more of the vocals to be lost in the process.
The audio interface also played a significant role since some interfaces seem to give all of your recordings a similar sound. I even opted for a Dynasty ProAudio UA2D phono pre-amp interface with input gain and monitor level to bypass a DJ mixer to avoid more of that filtered sound out of the recordings. I also tried better audio interfaces to see what difference there might be and I prefer ones that don't color or sound like there's a cold metallic filter going through your music.
I then realized my vinyl collection's better suited for background music or for sampling short 8 or 16 bar loops which I could then warp using Ableton Live 10's Complex Pro algorithm. I use to warp just the phrase that I would mix out of, like Intro, Chorus, and Outro only, and I even blended them with my MP3, MP4, and lossless audio collection a few times which I thought was cool. Other DJs told me to just leave my vinyl out of my DJ mixes unless it's going to be purely all vinyl.
After all of that money spent and countless hours of sweat and sleepless nights, I've finally let my old classics go and I've converted 100% to all digital mp3s, mp4s, and lossless files, like ALAC, OGG, FLAC and more. I prefer the sound a lot more now, but I do miss those rare relics, white labels, and party breaks.
I'm not giving up on my vinyl records and I still enjoy re-living that old feel of rare vintage music and I'm planning on keeping my entire collection (some recorded and some just in crates waiting for a day). I'm going to use my old vinyl as production inspiration and I'll sample and warp them to the beat grid for mashups, bootlegs, and hype edits if I can salvage a clean enough recording that blends well with digital audio using high-quality VSTs. Good luck and Peace!
Posted Mon 11 May 20 @ 2:55 am
groovindj
Ah the old Alesis Masterlink - I've got one of those too!
I've ripped lots of vinyl over the years. It can be made to sound pretty good when tweaked with various software and plugins.
Normally the first thing I'd do is filter out the rumble, then de-click it when required (with a CoolEdit plugin called ClickFix), EQ if needed then send it through a multi-band compressor (to "modernise" it) and/or a limiter (i.e. Waves L1) to bring the levels up.
Sometimes just filtering off the low end is good enough. To my ears 16 bit 44k1 is perfectly acceptable.
I've ripped lots of vinyl over the years. It can be made to sound pretty good when tweaked with various software and plugins.
Normally the first thing I'd do is filter out the rumble, then de-click it when required (with a CoolEdit plugin called ClickFix), EQ if needed then send it through a multi-band compressor (to "modernise" it) and/or a limiter (i.e. Waves L1) to bring the levels up.
Sometimes just filtering off the low end is good enough. To my ears 16 bit 44k1 is perfectly acceptable.
Posted Mon 11 May 20 @ 4:29 pm
Soundboyrich
I know it difficult to comprehend why I'm going from 16bit 48KHz to 24bit 192kHz. The youtube'rs are expecting to hear something else above or below hearing limits. It's not about the frequency domain. I'm going to use the term "time smear", your 2 ears can locate direction and distance down to 10microseconds! There is no other sensory that can process information that fast.
Filtering at 22kHz (audio CD 44KHz samplerate) cannot provide justice here. The filtering ruins the dynamics of the sound, whether a drum set foot pedal or electric bass sound tight or ringeey, or whether symbols or electronic or acoustic are smooth or muffled sounding. You need a setup where you can play music YOU KNOW EXTREMELY WELL and switch between sound equipment whatever realtime during playback. For example, I have a loop-in or bypass loop switch on my mixer (personal modification). Switch in the loop where my Ashlypreamp+pioneerEFX+Ashlysystemprocessor equipment are in the loop, I hear a big difference. If your not switching between pieces of equipment, speakers, etc, whatever you may not be able to hear any different. Of course your music source must be high quality, if your stuck on mp3 320kbps, its laughable, don't bother hearing any difference.
It looks like I'll invest in Virtual DJ soon. Vinyl till the death of me. Ripping with Bozak mixer, Schiit phono preamp, Nagaoka mp-150 cartridge, Technics 1200. Clean the vinyl with vinegar base cleaner, rinse under running water, dry with cotton t-shirt. You won't believe what 24bit 192kHz digitize does with vinyl. The 50dB of dynamic range is plenty... .
Filtering at 22kHz (audio CD 44KHz samplerate) cannot provide justice here. The filtering ruins the dynamics of the sound, whether a drum set foot pedal or electric bass sound tight or ringeey, or whether symbols or electronic or acoustic are smooth or muffled sounding. You need a setup where you can play music YOU KNOW EXTREMELY WELL and switch between sound equipment whatever realtime during playback. For example, I have a loop-in or bypass loop switch on my mixer (personal modification). Switch in the loop where my Ashlypreamp+pioneerEFX+Ashlysystemprocessor equipment are in the loop, I hear a big difference. If your not switching between pieces of equipment, speakers, etc, whatever you may not be able to hear any different. Of course your music source must be high quality, if your stuck on mp3 320kbps, its laughable, don't bother hearing any difference.
It looks like I'll invest in Virtual DJ soon. Vinyl till the death of me. Ripping with Bozak mixer, Schiit phono preamp, Nagaoka mp-150 cartridge, Technics 1200. Clean the vinyl with vinegar base cleaner, rinse under running water, dry with cotton t-shirt. You won't believe what 24bit 192kHz digitize does with vinyl. The 50dB of dynamic range is plenty... .
Posted Wed 13 May 20 @ 1:02 am
xylume
I just wanted to add that 24bit 192kHz has less noise in it and people can actually tell the difference even at loud volumes. It just sounds fuller and cleaner, but at the same time almost quieter. I've noticed that when you push 24bit audio into distortion it takes more volume before it crumbles.
If you have expensive audio equipment, then let 24bit audio run through it as it's probably safer for your subs and loudspeakers. Rich Audiophiles love high-end Hi-Fi Res audio and tube amps for a warm analog sound.
Keep in mind, Guitar Center once told me that vinyl records have the bass slightly off-center due to the way the tonearm and styli makes contact with the groove and that could cause subs to wear out quicker. I was told to use a quality VST to center the mono sub frequencies and avoid panning audio with vinyl records.
I have a feeling even cell phones are going to be playing 24bit, 32bit or even 48bit audio in the near future and the file size won't be so bad.
If you have expensive audio equipment, then let 24bit audio run through it as it's probably safer for your subs and loudspeakers. Rich Audiophiles love high-end Hi-Fi Res audio and tube amps for a warm analog sound.
Keep in mind, Guitar Center once told me that vinyl records have the bass slightly off-center due to the way the tonearm and styli makes contact with the groove and that could cause subs to wear out quicker. I was told to use a quality VST to center the mono sub frequencies and avoid panning audio with vinyl records.
I have a feeling even cell phones are going to be playing 24bit, 32bit or even 48bit audio in the near future and the file size won't be so bad.
Posted Wed 13 May 20 @ 6:47 am