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Forum: Wishes and new features

Topic: VDJ sound quality - is it club ready? - Page: 1
djxhalxPRO (OEM)Member since 2014
Is there a way to make VDJ use a better sound engine in future updates?
 

Posted Sun 13 Jan 19 @ 10:19 pm
djcelPRO InfinityModeratorMember since 2004
Could you give examples or describe what you expect when you think VirtualDJ needs a better sound engine?
On which sound systems have you tested?
(Or is it just in reaction to the last Traktor version with marketing approach?)
 

Posted Mon 14 Jan 19 @ 3:03 am
djxhalx wrote :
Is there a way to make VDJ use a better sound engine in future updates?


VDJ8 actually has one of the best there is
Serato probably has the worst one, but some still use that in clubs

So I would say: Yes, VDJ it's very much club/pro ready
 

Posted Mon 14 Jan 19 @ 8:47 am
ZiglarPRO InfinityMember since 2011
I am actually inclined to agree with the originator of this post.This is a post i have been wanting to bring up for a while now but was still tweaking things around to see if i can get some consistent success with the sound quality of vdj. To begin,this discussion,i have realised that there has been some significant improvement in how strong the sound from vdj's engine has become. what i dont understand is why the default Zero DB which gives probably the best dynamic range and balance,is usually going into the reds or clipping when mixing two songs together unless it is reduced to -3 or -6db. The sound quality issues of vdj become evident when mixing two songs together(sometimes even in key and with EQ's adjusted properly). As much as it hurts me to say this,most dj's i have come to know or have happened to meet during my travels started with VDJ and then went on to use Mainly Serato when their skill set/etc began improving and they nailed some big time gigs.I absolutely love virtual dj for its flexibility and constant urge for improvement but i think we would all agree that the sound engine/processing etc may need some working on.(At that point,i dont think any software can rival us). Rekordbox Dj(who i believe have copied a lot of stuff from vdj to get to where they are) seem to have their default Zero DB at -9db and it songs sound quite ok in terms of dynamic range and crispiness. I feel whenever i decrease my Zero DB value in vdj,i loose some crispiness/dynamic range in the songs/mix. Serato has their default set at 92db with very very crisp sound and as soon as you increase it to the higher values,your songs/mix sound similar to what u get from vdj at Default. When myself or other dj's i know use serato,its usually as easy and straightforward as plug and play when it comes to sound quality. But with virtual dj,i have to tweak a lot of things most of the time to get the songs/mix to sound as close to good as i can. I would be over the moon if i can get the sound quality/mix quality to be as hassle free as i get when i use serato. FYI- 1.I am in no way undermining the vdj software 2. I use autogain in vdj and my channel gain sliders are always at the 12 oclock position.
 

Posted Mon 14 Jan 19 @ 11:17 am
ZiglarPRO InfinityMember since 2011
Some Older Vdj users i came across say they even preferred the sound quality of VDJ 7 to VDJ 8. I have not made any comparisons on that front because i used vdj-7 on PC only and didnt have a controller during my early years of djing
 

Posted Mon 14 Jan 19 @ 11:20 am
I agree on the ZeroDB setting. I use -6 to avoid the limiter cutting in. On zero it can cause problems in a club situation where you are mixing two tracks together. The output is just a bit hot on the default setting.

Playing "Hips Don't Lie" with everything on zero it is peaking at three orange lights on my MCX8000 and that's too high.

General sound quality ways I have no issues at all.

 

Posted Mon 14 Jan 19 @ 11:25 am
Ziglar wrote :
what i dont understand is why the default Zero DB which gives probably the best dynamic range and balance,is usually going into the reds or clipping when mixing two songs together unless it is reduced to -3 or -6db.


That is because of the loudness wars, so you really have to give yourself headroom to mix if you use the tracks as-is

Serato does the same with it's "92db auto gain", which for most modern tracks will be around -6 db
But they color the sound - a bit like Loudness on old hi-fi equipment, so they cheat a little. VDJ outputs the sound "flat"
You can of course use an equalizer from the addon section to do the same trick Serato does if you like - but I really prefer to get the real/flat sound output, and handle it on a mixer/amp/PA
 

Posted Mon 14 Jan 19 @ 12:39 pm
Ziglar wrote :
Some Older Vdj users i came across say they even preferred the sound quality of VDJ 7 to VDJ 8


No, the VDJ7 (and 6) sound quality was not great - that is probably the reason some may still think that VDJ has bad sound, even though the v8 sound engine is top of the line

 

Posted Mon 14 Jan 19 @ 12:44 pm
VDJ is Club/Festival ready.

I have used VDJ in many different clubs, I’ve played at the Hard Rocks inside and outside stage for thousands of people and not once have I ever had a complaint, in fact I had the complete opposite.

The sound guy at the Hard Rock said I sent one of the cleanest signals of any dj that he’s had.

I play everything from trap music to country music and never once had a complaint.

This includes clubs, festivals, weddings and just parties in general.
 

Posted Mon 14 Jan 19 @ 2:08 pm
djcelPRO InfinityModeratorMember since 2004
Ok so if i try to sum up the first posts, the "issue" is while mixing 2 songs together. But is it ok for one song only?
 

Posted Mon 14 Jan 19 @ 3:15 pm
ZiglarPRO InfinityMember since 2011
djcel wrote :
Ok so if i try to sum up the first posts, the "issue" is while mixing 2 songs together. But is it ok for one song only?

Yes it generally is very ok for one sound only. I have realised that if I slam the crossfader from one song to another without mixing,I usually don't get any problems at all.
 

Posted Mon 14 Jan 19 @ 4:31 pm
ZiglarPRO InfinityMember since 2011
the SOUND INSURGENT wrote :
VDJ is Club/Festival ready.

I have used VDJ in many different clubs, I’ve played at the Hard Rocks inside and outside stage for thousands of people and not once have I ever had a complaint, in fact I had the complete opposite.

The sound guy at the Hard Rock said I sent one of the cleanest signals of any dj that he’s had.

I play everything from trap music to country music and never once had a complaint.

This includes clubs, festivals, weddings and just parties in general.

That is quite some really good news and I would be glad if you could bless me with what gain/Zero db/equalizer settings you use. And also does this depend on your controller? Do u connect this controller through a separate standalone mixer or directly to the AMP...Etc etc
 

Posted Mon 14 Jan 19 @ 4:37 pm
ZiglarPRO InfinityMember since 2011
klausmogensen wrote :
Ziglar wrote :
what i dont understand is why the default Zero DB which gives probably the best dynamic range and balance,is usually going into the reds or clipping when mixing two songs together unless it is reduced to -3 or -6db.


That is because of the loudness wars, so you really have to give yourself headroom to mix if you use the tracks as-is

Serato does the same with it's "92db auto gain", which for most modern tracks will be around -6 db
But they color the sound - a bit like Loudness on old hi-fi equipment, so they cheat a little. VDJ outputs the sound "flat"
You can of course use an equalizer from the addon section to do the same trick Serato does if you like - but I really prefer to get the real/flat sound output, and handle it on a mixer/amp/PA
Thank you very much for the insight. I really think VDJ forums have the best response/help services across all platforms

 

Posted Mon 14 Jan 19 @ 4:39 pm
blckjckPRO InfinityMember since 2008
Taking some time to learn gain structure is important as well. Mixing two audio sources will raise the overall level. So, playing two at once may cause you to bump into the internal limiter. Thus, lowering the ZeroDB helps keep you out of the limiter when mixing the tracks. I just use my upfaders to maintain the volume level while mixing. My ZeroDB is at -1.

 

Posted Tue 15 Jan 19 @ 4:01 am
the sound has BEEN ready since we started using it here in 2006 and has only improved more and more over the years.

 

Posted Thu 17 Jan 19 @ 2:21 am
It's easy to blame VDJ for "bad sound" as OP obviously does here...
Maybe he should take a closer look to what his gear does to the sound, or how he is mixing.
 

Posted Thu 17 Jan 19 @ 8:05 am
djxhalxPRO (OEM)Member since 2014
Well, I played on Denon MC6000, switched to MC7000 and compared to CDJs, Traktor A6/A10 players with Traktor Pro 2 or with Serato SL2/4 + Serato DJ playing back to back there is a HUGE difference in sound in favour always on other hardware+software combo. I never really had a chance to test out other hardware with VDJ so maybe that is a problem - but configuration wise and source files I always try to compare spectrum analysed 320kbps or high bitrate m4a/flac files without any luck.

VDJ + MC7000 always sounds flat and harsh on highs compared to other setups.
 

Posted Thu 17 Jan 19 @ 4:33 pm
AdionPRO InfinityCTOMember since 2006
Can you make a recording of both to compare?
 

Posted Thu 17 Jan 19 @ 5:18 pm
locodogPRO InfinityModeratorMember since 2013
I've always suspected that traktor & serato colour the sound with a unseen eq, and vdj stays close to reference.

I've seen plenty of subjective sound comparisons but never a scientific reference v output comparison. (other than mic's and studio monitors/amps)
I know subjective quality is the desired goal but in rig engineering I'm of the opinion you want as close to reference into the amp rack/active cab, then eq to compliment the cabs/venue (or let the dsp of the active do it's thing)

I'm just surprised that mixer/controller/SW makers don't publish, maybe it wouldn't really make a difference and it's assumed the eq/dsp in the rack will do the job.
 

Posted Thu 17 Jan 19 @ 6:09 pm
djxhalxPRO (OEM)Member since 2014
I suspect that it's a low quality DAC in controllers that makes the sound not good enough for club enviroment probably. Maybe If I get a chance to use VDJ with better quality soundcard/DAC to test things out then I will know for sure.

One thing is 100% true - VDJ could use a better effects pack - the default ones are really not that good.
 

Posted Thu 17 Jan 19 @ 6:18 pm
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