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Forum: General Discussion

Topic: Tidal - Page: 2
Thanks man!
 

Posted Mon 21 Sep 20 @ 9:48 am
Ok what streaming service you can use legally inside of virtual dj?
 

Posted Mon 21 Sep 20 @ 11:56 pm
Hello everybody,
About TIDAL, i download it today just because it would be better in quality than spotify and because of the online search in VDJ.
I love to mix the video, but if I search them they not appear and if i add them at a playlist the deck says error.
Is it normal or only mine problem?
Also do you know if there would be in the future the possibilities to use them too as music?

Thanks to anybody!
 

Posted Mon 12 Oct 20 @ 4:24 pm
Stamat B wrote :
Ok what streaming service you can use legally inside of virtual dj?


You can use all supported services legally privately (not in a club).
The only services you're allowed to use commercially (in a club) are iDJPool, Beatport Link and BeatSource as far as i know (feel free to correct me)
 

Posted Wed 21 Oct 20 @ 3:00 pm
TKO_SUONO_LUCI_VIDEO wrote :

Is it normal or only mine problem?
Also do you know if there would be in the future the possibilities to use them too as music?


No you cannot use video at the moment, but it is planned to add this in future.

 

Posted Wed 21 Oct 20 @ 3:30 pm
djkrysrPRO InfinityMember since 2010
Hi
Concerning licensing, i asked this question to a lawyer friend of mine when I noticed years ago that the iTunes T&C says music bought on it's platform can only to be played for personal use.
As he explained it to me (altho this was a few years ago, things change all the time, and he was giving me advice for how he understood the UK market), ALL music you buy is for personal use only, that includes iTunes, Spotify plus CDs or Vinyl from Amazon/HMV etc.
However, when you play music in a club or bar, THEY should have paid a commercial music licensing fee to whatever organisation your country uses (PRS/PPL etc), that allows them to play music from pretty much any source, which includes your personal collection when you are at their premises, during their licensed hours (in the UK venues have to specify how many hours a week they play live music/video/karaoke etc, and are charged accordingly). The point is, providing your venue has a music license, you should be covered to play any of your music, as the license holders are getting paid by the venue for that particular performance of the track. The exception to this is if the bar only plays music from a commercial streaming service like Pandora and don't have a full license, in that case they are only allowed to play music from that source, and you can only play music you are licensed to play publicly, which may include some (but not necessarily all) professional DJ services.
Please be aware this is not necessarily the law, this is just the law as it's been explained to me by one person, it may not be correct or it may not apply to your country but it does say on every CD i've ever bought "this CD is for personal use only..." and I have not heard of a single DJ prosecuted for playing music NOT provided by a DJ subscription service no matter where it came from, I've also had PPL (or maybe PRS i can't remember) in my venue twice, writing down my playlist as I performed to build a chart for artist royalties, and I've never been asked where the music on my computer came from, he just wanted to know every track I played (including all the artists featured on bootlegs/mashups).

This is excerpts taken from the PRS website https://www.prsformusic.com/our-global-network/prs-managed-territories/prs-managed-territories-licensing-music
If your business is playing music for the benefit of your customers or employees, you must have a music licence.
What is a 'public performance'?
Music is performed 'in public' when it is performed outside what could be regarded as the domestic circle or home life. This includes music performances – of live and recorded music or music from TV and radio – in premises from concert halls to corner shops.

Recorded music
If your business plays any type of recording in a public or staff space, you'll need a PRS for Music licence, including any music that's played by a DJ, downloaded or streamed"

https://www.prsformusic.com/royalties/online-royalties
What music does a PRS for Music licence cover?
PRS for Music and ICE have licensing agreements with a range of digital service providers, such as Netflix, YouTube, Spotify, Deezer, GooglePlay, Apple Music, Soundcloud, Tidal, iTunes and Amazon.

which reinforces the argument that if the venue is paying (PRS in the UK) for a commercial music license, you should be covered.

If anyone has anything else to add to this discussion I would be really interested to hear.
 

Posted Wed 28 Oct 20 @ 12:18 pm
There is a difference between the wording on a typical vinyl record or CD , and the wording on most download services.

On physical media, the wording is along the lines of "Unauthorized copying, hiring, renting, public performance and broadcasting prohibited". The first word is the key one.

It's saying that you can't do those things unless you have authorization (i.e. a license).

Sites such as iTunes, Spotify etc. just state that it's for personal use. They don't mention authorization, so there's no "...unless you have a license" part.

PPL/PRS licenses cover the first type of music (that ones that you can use if you're authorized). They don't cover streaming sites.

From the PPL web site:
We do not license music services that offer downloads or on-demand streams of individual music tracks, such as Spotify and Apple Music, or services that enable the upload of content by the general public, such as YouTube and Facebook.

We do not license any of the following:

On-demand streaming and/or downloads of full individual music tracks and/or albums
Permanent downloads containing full music tracks, including podcasts
Streaming services with ‘shuffle’ functionality that enables random playback of music tracks
Unlimited music track skipping functionality
User upload services
 

Posted Wed 28 Oct 20 @ 12:41 pm
djkrysrPRO InfinityMember since 2010
Hi groovind

I take on board what you say about PPL, however PRS explicitly say they DO cover that.

https://www.prsformusic.com/royalties/online-royalties
What music does a PRS for Music licence cover?
PRS for Music and ICE have licensing agreements with a range of digital service providers, such as Netflix, YouTube, Spotify, Deezer, GooglePlay, Apple Music, Soundcloud, Tidal, iTunes and Amazon.

I suppose the question is, who are the venue paying, these days it appears to be "theMusicLicense", a PPL PRS collaboration in the UK, but I cannot find out what they cover, and whether it is different to PPL & PRS separately or a combination of the 2.
 

Posted Wed 28 Oct 20 @ 2:05 pm
If you check the web page which explains the difference between them, PPL is the important one because they collect for the use of recorded music (which is what DJs use).

PRS is collecting for the use of compositions and lyrics.
 

Posted Wed 28 Oct 20 @ 3:23 pm
djkrysrPRO InfinityMember since 2010
groovindj wrote :
If you check the web page which explains the difference between them, PPL is the important one because they collect for the use of recorded music (which is what DJs use).

PRS is collecting for the use of compositions and lyrics.


I see, how does that apply to streaming services, which is what we are talking about. If a DJ is playing from a streaming service, is it considered recorded? And if so, what is the PRS license regarding streaming services for?
 

Posted Wed 28 Oct 20 @ 3:28 pm
There's plenty of info online if you really want to find out in depth. All you need to know really is that consumer/domestic services like Spotify cannot be used for public performance.

See this page for example.

There is actually a separate service called Soundtrack Your Brand which provides Spotify to businesses for background music. It has a much higher monthly fee, only uses playlists and has its own app. PPL license still required.
 

Posted Wed 28 Oct 20 @ 3:53 pm
djkrysrPRO InfinityMember since 2010
I find it very bizarre that PRS explicitly says it collects royalties from music played via streaming services, and bars these days in the UK use the PPL-PRS service so therefore pay PRS a fee to play music, but if we play streaming music we would be breaking the law. It is very confusing why PRS would even say they collect money on behalf of artists via streaming services if businesses are not allowed to play music from them in the first place.
And also, surely Spotify, Deezer etc must give permission for Virtual DJ to use their services in it's program, yet I cannot see anything on the Virtual DJ website that says it is illegal (or for that matter legal) to actually use the services during a DJ set. Since it's software is designed for DJ's, and you can only use the 'paid for' versions of the services within the software, it implies you can use it, and I can't find anywhere on the Virtual DJ website saying you can't.
Maybe it would be a good idea for Virtual DJ to clarify what is, and isn't, legal use of it's software within the specific features it advertises, I'm not saying a full list of all legal requirements, however it does advertise it's use of 'alternate online content providers', that you can use (presumably in your DJ sets since it's DJ software) so if you cannot use them in public performances perhaps it should state that just so everyone knows.
 

Posted Wed 28 Oct 20 @ 5:11 pm
PRS are paid by Spotify, Deezer etc. for the right to provide the music to the public. They're not paying anything for public performance - they don't need it (as they're consumer sites).

Venues pay both via the combi license you mentioned, but they're not allowed to use consumer streaming sites for background music (PPL doesn't cover it).

It's the same reason we can't use the services in public if they say "personal use only".

Beatport / Beatsource (aimed at DJs) says it's for personal use, but then goes on to say that you can use it for performance with an additional license.

As for services in DJ software, it's up to the DJ to make sure they're above board. VDJ isn't alone in this. The vendors leave it to the user.
 

Posted Wed 28 Oct 20 @ 5:42 pm
djkrysrPRO InfinityMember since 2010
groovindj wrote :
As for services in DJ software, it's up to the DJ to make sure they're above board. VDJ isn't alone in this. The vendors leave it to the user.


It is a shame that they are taking that stance, as we are left with no definitive answer, not that I am doubting you or the website you shared a link to, but there are as many "Digital DJ" sites that say it is legal to use streaming services if the venue has the appropriate license, and neither PRS nor PPL explicitly say DJs can't use the streaming services they subscribe to whilst in a PRS-PPL licensed venue, so we all have to make our own decisions rather than actually knowing the answer, whereas Virtual DJ must know whether the plugins are "approved" by the various streaming services or not, and if they are approved that would imply they can be used, so even covering themselves by saying "you may not be licensed when playing from these services" would be something rather than nothing.

 

Posted Wed 28 Oct 20 @ 6:53 pm
I know from experience that a great many DJs just assume it's OK to use a service at gigs because it's been included in the software, or that the venue has a license - or both.

It's clear from the T&Cs of the services, and from the issuers of the licenses, but the DJs either won't listen to reason or they're just not bothered.

I don't use any of the streaming sites for DJing. I buy all my music from a professional music library, licensed by PPL and PRS/MCPS.
 

Posted Wed 28 Oct 20 @ 7:37 pm
djkrysrPRO InfinityMember since 2010
Or it could be the fact that I have been a DJ since vinyl, a lot of which was mailed to me to promote in my club, then CD took over, I could also buy any vinyl & CD in HMV to use in the bar, all that music (including the promos) had the term "Unauthorized Reproduction, Broadcast, Public Performance etc prohibited", yet I know since the venue had a PPL/PRS license, I was covered to play the music there. So I could IGNORE any T&C because the venue license "trumps" the printed warning.
So to be honest with you, when streaming services started, and not being a lawyer, and only now being aware of your claim that the omission of the ONE word "unauthorized" is critical to the terms, I find it totally understandable that a lot of DJs will assume it is OK to play music from those services since they can play music they pay for from any other source.
 

Posted Thu 29 Oct 20 @ 12:41 pm
djkrysr wrote :
the venue license "trumps" the printed warning


Confirmation of what I was saying, right there. Even you're not getting it.

There's no "trumping" or ignoring involved. The license is the authorization. Having the license is the complete opposite of ignoring the copyright notice.
 

Posted Thu 29 Oct 20 @ 12:59 pm
djkrysrPRO InfinityMember since 2010
I am totally understanding what you are claiming, the last comment was to offer a different view as to why DJs may make the assumption that it is OK to play streaming content other than being "not bothered" to find out.

And it still doesn't change the situation that you are stating you are absolutely correct, whereby all i see is you providing a reasonable opinion, and convincing argument for the law as you interpret it. It doesn't actually make you right (or wrong) though.
 

Posted Thu 29 Oct 20 @ 4:29 pm
djkrysrPRO InfinityMember since 2010
I am totally understanding what you are claiming, the last comment was to offer a different view as to why DJs may make the assumption that it is OK to play streaming content other than being "not bothered" to find out.


 

Posted Thu 29 Oct 20 @ 5:22 pm
Love Deezer!
has anyone used BPM Supreme?
 

Posted Tue 28 Sep 21 @ 9:37 pm
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