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Topic: Should our subs be on the floor? - Page: 1

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Since our forums have a lot of very knowledgeable members, I thought I would ask this question to hear and way the different opinions. What's your thoughts?
 
Posted Mon 11 Jul 16 @ 3:55 am
on the floor and stacked together...
 
 
hi, the articles above are very useful,

install your subwoofer, on the floor the closest posible , get better coverage and increase your spl,

GK
 
 
Problem is the subs is most commonly used also as stands for the tops.
And the tops you want to spread out. So it's in conflict.
 
MrJackson2014 wrote :
Problem is the subs is most commonly used also as stands for the tops.
And the tops you want to spread out. So it's in conflict.


Then I think that people need to buy some tripods to put their speakers on instead of on top of the subs on sticks. lol.

Or, I suppose that they can just ignore the fact and be ok with losing a large portion of their bass potential.
 
I care about how much equipment I carry around as I am all mobile.
For me, there's not a problem not having optimal sub placement. I keep them on the floor at least. LOL
 
Cannen wrote :
losing a large portion of their bass potential.


...only it won't be "a large portion".

In the video that was linked to higher up the thread, the guy talks about getting a 3dB increase that "doubles the output", or 6db and so on. What he fails to mention is that it won't actually SOUND twice as loud. Yes, 3dB is double the power (just as adding another speaker will add 3dB to your output) but you would need a 10dB increase in order for it to SOUND like double.

In other words (and in my opinion) the awkwardness of moving subs into odd places just to add 3dB is pointless in most typical gig situations. It's really not going to sound that different.

Your system should be capable of more than enough volume to cope with the size of venue and number of people in it before you need to worry about putting subs in pairs, in corners etc.

If you've got a decent system then all that faffing about is just not worth it for the tiny difference it makes. Put your speakers where they look best, and where they'll direct sound to the required place.



 
groovindj wrote :
Cannen wrote :
losing a large portion of their bass potential.


...only it won't be "a large portion".

In the video that was linked to higher up the thread, the guy talks about getting a 3dB increase that "doubles the output", or 6db and so on. What he fails to mention is that it won't actually SOUND twice as loud. Yes, 3dB is double the power (just as adding another speaker will add 3dB to your output) but you would need a 10dB increase in order for it to SOUND like double.

In other words (and in my opinion) the awkwardness of moving subs into odd places just to add 3dB is pointless in most typical gig situations. It's really not going to sound that different.

Your system should be capable of more than enough volume to cope with the size of venue and number of people in it before you need to worry about putting subs in pairs, in corners etc.

If you've got a decent system then all that faffing about is just not worth it for the tiny difference it makes. Put your speakers where they look best, and where they'll direct sound to the required place.


Not only a large portion of the bass, but also the hotspots for the bass. Where the bass is most prominent. Bass is not really directional, but it is to a point. Watch this guys explanation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5F7_FQX6ok
 
OK I watched the whole thing and not once did he mention hotspots.

BTW I can safely say that in over 30 years of DJing I've never encountered a sound issue from placing my speakers either side of me. No customer complaints, no venue complaints, no problems that I've noticed when doing a walk around. Nothing.
 
Okay guys, good discussion, now let me throw this at ya. We know placing subs this way or that way will gain 3 here or 6 there. But is that good clear low freqs we get, or just a louder rumble? So the reason I have asked this question, a local DJ, has old Peavey SP (I think) 18" subs. They are huge. He has put 4" casters on them for easier transporting to and from. The center of the 18" speaker is 38" off the floor. They rattle the ice in my drink at low spl, and this guy never has that annoying subwoofer rumble stuff, always clear, and he puts them out in the middle of the room at times, still sound great. I know this goes against 'everything', but I'm asking if 'everything' could be wrong?
 
mrgrumpy1 wrote :
Okay guys, good discussion, now let me throw this at ya. We know placing subs this way or that way will gain 3 here or 6 there. But is that good clear low freqs we get, or just a louder rumble? So the reason I have asked this question, a local DJ, has old Peavey SP (I think) 18" subs. They are huge. He has put 4" casters on them for easier transporting to and from. The center of the 18" speaker is 38" off the floor. They rattle the ice in my drink at low spl, and this guy never has that annoying subwoofer rumble stuff, always clear, and he puts them out in the middle of the room at times, still sound great. I know this goes against 'everything', but I'm asking if 'everything' could be wrong?


I've found that speakers in the corner my be louder and more boomy, but the punch just doesn't seem to be there as much. It sounds a little more muddy. Personally, I think 2 on the floor, side by side, right in front of your DJ table and between your tops sounds the nicest with the best punch. Seems to me that corners create an echo. I've never tried them on the wall though.
 
All this talking is nice but makes sense only for permanent installations, not mobile gigs.
The most "safe" option is that all subs have the same direction. In other words they face the same thing. If you ever saw a big concert you will see that subs are also placed that way. On the sides of the stage facing the same way towards the croud / arena.
Why ? Because this setup has the less vulnerabilities.
Placing the subs on the corners of a room makes sense for permanent installations where a sound technician will measure the frequency response and make all the necessary adjustments.
YES, placing the subs on the corners where the subs don't have the same direction (they form an X shape) means that most likely they will need to be adjusted to avoid bass cancellation. Therefore a sound technician is required to measure frequency response among the room and adjust the angles of the subs, their distance and possibly their phase as well.

So, long story short: The most appropriate setup for mobile gigs is to place the subs on the sides of the booth (or in front together) facing the same way to your crowd.
This way you avoid bass cancellation and diffusion / muddy sound.
 
 
Quote :
In other words (and in my opinion) the awkwardness of moving subs into odd places just to add 3dB is pointless in most typical gig situations. It's really not going to sound that different.



Quote :
All this talking is nice but makes sense only for permanent installations, not mobile gigs.


Thank you, next question .
 
As a mobile DJ, I have found that sub placement is usually never an ideal situation.
You want a corner? -- Nope-- we have you "over there."
My approach to using subs has a lot more to do with adapting to a hall than having the hall ready for me and my "ideal" placement wishes.
So--
Quick answer:
Yes, the subs should be on the floor. For one reason alone-- If they are good, they are usually heavy. :)
So-- it's not a good idea to have them higher than you can lift them.
 
Very interesting article Cannon, it said put your sub on the floor, then get on your knees to listen to them. And OldTom, yes they are damn heavy, no we don't want to lift them, but, is this the best place for them? Now so far in this thread I think we have learned not to put them in the corner if ya want clear low freqs, and the best way to listen to your subs is on your knees. Very interesting......
 
I think the general idea supported by many is to either keep them together on the floor (coupling) for the bass boost, or put them under your tops for a better, cleaner appearance.

When it comes down to it, I believe that it's all about testing and about the room you are in. Setting them up, crawling around on your knees, or walking around to find the sweet spots are probably the most important.

Sometimes you'll be in a corner, and you'll need to setup one way. Other times you might be in the middle of the room and will be able to set them up a different way.

My personal preference is that they sit side by side on the floor. They could even be together under your table if you have the right table to accomodate your subs.

How does everyone feel about having them together in front of you and then putting your tops over them? Or maybe even all toghether off to one side? Would that be the best of both worlds?
 
Unfortunately I don't have enough free time to analyze this subject further, but PLEASE don't mess audiophile / high end audio techniques with PA techniques.
Sound engineers around the globe that get rewarded thousands of dollars per concert have studied this subject several times.
There's no gain to raise your subs in the air, at any height. Bass is a low frequency wave. As such it has big wave length. This means that in low levels you will hear all the frequencies in distance 2-3 feet of the sub. That's why audiophiles suggest you to find the "hot spot"
However in big levels bass has tons of reflections that they are also very powerful. This means that you will hear almost all frequencies at ANY spot inside a room.

The ONLY real limitation when placing subs in a room is to provide them enough space to generate the initial wave. In other words, it's a good practice to keep your subs 2-3 feets away from the mass of your croud so that the wave generates fully before it starts getting absorbed by human bodies.
 
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