Sign In:     

Forum: General Discussion

Topic: Advise on safe set up and safe gain levels!

This topic is old and might contain outdated or incorrect information.

Hi

I know this isnt strictly about Virtual DJ but I've noticed how knowalageble you guys are so it would be absoublty fantastic if you could help me!!!

I have 2x CDJ400's and a DJM400, Roksan kandy K2 amp and power amp and a Korg Kaoss pad!

I am currently having concerns about my Korg Kaoss Pad I have bought. To get it working on both channels I have to go Amp/Korg/Mixer so that means the level of gain after my amp that goes through to my mixer is controlled through the tiny knob on the korg!!!

Now your going to have to forgive me as I'm new to this but could I end up burning anything out like the korg, mixer and amps?!?!?
The only thing that tells me that something is going to overload/distortion is the tiny LED on the korg!!

I just dont want to damage any of my equipment so could you please advise me on the safest course of action!!

Many thanks =)
 
Posted Sun 18 Dec 11 @ 8:20 am
Twellski wrote :


I have to go Amp/Korg/Mixer

the level of gain after my amp that goes through to my mixer is controlled through the tiny knob on the korg!!!


You've got that the wrong way round!

Your CDJs should be feeding your DJM, which then goes to the Korg. The Korg goes to the amp, which goes to the speakers.

CDJs->Mixer->Korg->Amp->Speakers.

As long as you keep your mixer levels in the green, and the peak LED on the Korg doesn't flash, you should be fine.

 
groovindj wrote :
Your CDJs should be feeding your DJM, which then goes to the Korg. The Korg goes to the amp, which goes to the speakers. CDJs->Mixer->Korg->Amp->Speakers.


In reality it is not correct settings, as i can see that is also wrong: (That is why it is distorted because of the overloading and some clipping is happening on your audio signals).

This is how it should works in sounds engineering point of view. You must know the main of audio source of audio signal and connection.

Right Chain is 1=MIXER then 2=POWER AMP then 3=SPEAKER

1=You should not insert anything between the POWER AMP & SPEAKERS.
2=You can only insert audio sources between MIXER & POWER AMP specifically like: EQ's, COMPRESSOR, LIMITER, GATES & DRIVERACK or SOUND MANAGEMENT PROCESSOR) other than that are not allowed or it could damaged your equipment or ruined your sound quality and results to poor audio signal.
3=All your inputs like: CD'S, MUSICAL INSTRUMENTS, MICS, SAMPLER, EFFECTS or any audio source, must be plug-in or connected to the MIXER no other than that.

It is clear that your DJM-400 is designed as a mixer then it has the ability to manage multiple audio sources signal and inputs then mixed that multiple audio signal and divided into stereo signal (two-signal which is left & right) channel and carefully pass that audio signal to the power amp. That is why it is called MIXER because of the logic behind that it could manage to handle multiple inputs of audio signal and mixed it into stereo sounds.

So in this case your connection must be:
Any kind of Audio sources like: SAMPLER, EFFECTS, CD PLAYERS, IPAD, IPHONE, COMPUTER, TV, TURN TABLE etc. must be connected to a MIXER not the POWER AMPno other than that. So you can do yours CDJs & Korg ->-> Mixer ->-> Amp ->-> Speakers.


SEE MY FACEBOOK PROFILES for the EQUIPMENTS BACKGROUNDS I HAVE:
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100001927418194
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Creativexponent-Stage-Light-Sound-Professionals/150054821689250


Regards,
Cesar
 
If your mixer does not have an effects loop then you should ideally upgrade to one with this facility. This will allow you to connect the Korg to the mixer itself and then selectively apply the effects to the mixer channels of your choice.
 
Are you doing gigs with that amp? What speakers are you driving with that amp?

That amplifier, while it has a hefty price tag, is NOT meant for what you are using it for. This amp is for HOME audio. It is meant to drive home audio type speakers. If you are just messing around in your bedroom, then gain levels shouldn't even be a question.

To do a proper job, you should have the proper gear. Speakers and amps are designed for specific applications. Choosing the right gear depends on room size, the type of event, and the users ability and knowledge. Someone who doesn't know how to properly setup an eq, or some other speaker management device is only inviting more problems by having that piece of gear in the chain.

Based on the gear you are currently using and the original concerns from your first post, I would describe you as a novice when it comes to the PA gear. Based on that assumption, I would suggest you look at some powered speakers. There are many different sizes, manufacturers and specs when it comes to a powered speaker setup. For an average hall that holds 300 or so people, 2 15" tops and a single sub will suffice. If you are doing more events with a younger crowd such as school dances, you might consider 2 subs. For 99% of mobile gigs, anything more than that is overkill. We don't need to make ears bleed. It doesn't have to be loud from the dancefloor all the way to the back of the room.

The other nice feature of running a powered setup is not having to worry about matching the right speaker with the right amp. Simply plug in the speaker and run your master out from your mixer right to the line input on the speaker.

I would also mention that for anything other than practicing in your bedroom, you will need to purchase a Virtual DJ Pro license to LEGALLY use this software to DJ with.
 
cesarcastillo wrote :
So you can do yours CDJs & Korg ->-> Mixer ->-> Amp ->-> Speakers.


No he can't, because the Korg is not a source - it's an effects unit. The output of the mixer needs to go through the Korg.

The Korg has been designed for this. It has a direct/send mode switch on the rear.
 
groovindj wrote :
No he can't, because the Korg is not a source - it's an effects unit.


groovindj, The Korg is an EFFECTS/SAMPLER and it is not a mixer to process multiple audio input and sends it to the amps because it is not design like that way. Therefore the KORG AUDIO ENGINEERS will not be stupid to design such equipment as the way you like or as what you said because it is absolutely wrong. The argument here is you are teaching user here in this forum to use the equipments in a wrong way, as i have said above you can not connect the KORG KAOS PAD to the power amp like the way you want. It must be connected to the mixer nothing than that remember that we are talking about equipments in which small mistake equipments will be in a big trouble.

I will explain to you how the this KORG must be connected.
Basic Connections:
In this connection, the korg can be used as “in-line” between the audio source and the mixer inputs. In this type of application, the CONNECTION switch on the rear panel is set to DIRECT. In this case, effects can be applied to the incoming audio signal, and the incoming audio signal can be sampled.

DJ Mixer Connections:
The Korg can also be used as an external effect processor by connecting it to the effect send and return jacks on a DJ mixer or mixing console. For this type of application, the CONNECTION switch on the rear panel should be set to SEND. This allows the Korg effects to be applied to any audio signal connected to the mixer. With this setting, the output from the Korg will contain only the processed signal, and will not include the original signal being sent to the Korg inputs.

 
I would like to ask TWELLSKI to register his VDJ or have at least a license copy of VDJ in order to benefits help, tips & plugins in this forums. Thanks.
 
Cesar, please don't patronise me.

I've been working with audio kit for 30 years, and what's more, I actually OWN a Korg KP3, and have read the manual.

I know what it is, and how to set it up.

If he sets it up (as you suggested) in-line between his CDJ and the mixer, he will only be able to use the KP3 effects on ONE CDJ!

He needs to connect the KP3 after the mixer, because his mixer doesn't have any send and return channels, so he cannot patch it in that way. As I said, the Korg is designed to be used either way. It has a switch for use either via send/return (which in this instance can't be done) or as a thru device - the output of the mixer fed through the KP3 (so both CDJs can have effects applied) and from there to the amp.

There's nothing incorrect about doing it that way - it's been designed to work like that.
 
Hi groovindj... I have also read the manual and it is clear that it is recommended only to use as line or an external effect unit and connect to the mixer or to other audio source but i did not see any recommendation in the manual to used it by connecting it into the audio chain like the power amp as this part of the audio chain is one critical parts that can blow up and fry your systems if something wrong happens. I'm just worried by altering and diverting of its uses might results into an audio signal chaos.

Ok if you try then it works without a problem then fine no worries as what you've said. Thanks.

I'm an live sound audio engineer & technician and doing live sound mixing for almost 15years with small to huge arena concert and cater to some of the famous artist all over the world. You can view my facebook page below for your info.

SEE MY FACEBOOK PROFILES for the EQUIPMENTS BACKGROUNDS I HAVE:
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100001927418194
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Creativexponent-Stage-Light-Sound-Professionals/150054821689250
 
Support staff wrote :
If your mixer does not have an effects loop then you should ideally upgrade to one with this facility. This will allow you to connect the Korg to the mixer itself and then selectively apply the effects to the mixer channels of your choice.


Agree... The DJM400 does not have an effects loop. Therefore the only safe solution is to upgrade the mixer. You are right to be concerned so this would be your next logical step to improve your set up.

Cheers,

Roy
 
GadgetMan wrote :
Support staff wrote :
If your mixer does not have an effects loop then you should ideally upgrade to one with this facility. This will allow you to connect the Korg to the mixer itself and then selectively apply the effects to the mixer channels of your choice.


Agree... The DJM400 does not have an effects loop. Therefore the only safe solution is to upgrade the mixer. You are right to be concerned so this would be your next logical step to improve your set up.


Yes... 100% This is the right solution... not by altering on its manufacturer recommended usage as intended, altering! will result to unexpected problems.
 
I have to say I'm with GroovinDJ in this. I do own a KP3 and I also got it connected to the master-out of my mixer. In fact, I have done several gigs with it without any problems for the last 3 years.
About half of the effects of the KP3 only work if it's connected this way, because it will kill the source-signal and only let the processed signal through. That won't work if the KP3 is in your FX-path. The only downside of this setup is that I'm not able to run my amp at full power, because the output signal of the KP3 is too low. Which brings me to the question of the TS: No, you won't damage your setup, as long as (like GroovinDJ said) you keep the signal indicator green. But that counts for all your equipment....... ;)

I've checked the Behringer Tweakilizer too (which basically does the same). That manual says that you can connect the Line-out to a mixer or amplifier, depending on how it will be used.

A line-out still is a line-out. It doesn't matter if it is from a mixer, processor, KP3 or CD-player (no, wait, that's a 2 V-signal.. LOL) And if Korg had named the KP3 a Sound Reinforcement Processor, we wouldn't have had this topic :D
 
Martin FourS wrote :
The only downside of this setup is that I'm not able to run my amp at full power, because the output signal of the KP3 is too low. Which brings me to the question of the TS: No, you won't damage your setup, as long as (like GroovinDJ said) you keep the signal indicator green. But that counts for all your equipment....... ;)


Hahahaha... another stupid suggestion.... your amp will not run full clockwise because your audio signal chain is stupidly connected to korg...because it is not an audio processor it is an effects sampler that shouldn't be connected directly to the amp....and that is why you feel that your power is less because your amp is clipping anytime when you make the attenuator up.

For example you are doing an DJ GIG with an ARENA/BIG CONCERT with 20pcs-rack amp wired 200-feet away from you and to your korg? and the amp rack is place under the stage and you are up on the stage? how you will monitor the signal of the amp?. No pros always look at the signal during live performance as that will bother your attention while doing your mix. That is wrong.
 
cesarcastillo wrote :
Hahahaha... another stupid suggestion.... your amp will not run full clockwise because your audio signal chain is stupidly connected to korg...because it is not an audio processor it is an effects sampler that shouldn't be connected directly to the amp....and that is why you feel that your power is less because your amp is clipping anytime when you make the attenuator up.


Subtile.....
You're assuming. Nothing you mentioned is based on facts. You weren't there, right? The Korg has a max. output of 0,8 to 1,0 V, where the amps can handle 1,3 to 1.4 V (+4dBu). It's impossible to clip the amp with the Korg. Yes, you can clip the Korg, but the same goes for your mixer. You've got to pay attention. Always.

cesarcastillo wrote :
For example you are doing an DJ GIG with an ARENA/BIG CONCERT with 20pcs-rack amp wired 200-feet away from you and to your korg? and the amp rack is place under the stage and you are up on the stage? how you will monitor the signal of the amp?. No pros always look at the signal during live performance as that will bother your attention while doing your mix. That is wrong.


This is just about the strangest example you can give. So in a gig like this the DJ is the only one that is taking care of the sound in the arena? Well, I just start to understand why you defend your statements so furious.
No, in a gig like this there's always a FoH-console with a technician on the floor. HE will monitor the equipment. It's not up to the DJ. Another thing is that the line out of the booth is connected to the FoH-console and therefor not directly to the amprack. And then there should be no problem, right?

But this topic is derailing seriously..... The TS has asked if he could connect his KP3 to his HOME-entertainment amp without risk and that's where I see no problem at all.
 
He asked about a KAOSS PAD not the KP3...........just saying but yeah yall are gettin carried away here.

Good Luck
Huey
 
Sorry... i may say something bad, but Huey is right we are just all carried away here. Thanks
 


(Old topics and forums are automatically closed)