Sign In:     

Forum: General Discussion

Topic: Powered Speaker Suggestions - please - Page: 1

This part of topic is old and might contain outdated or incorrect information

I am just getting started and after a few times using a rack amp and passive peavey tls-2 mains i think I wan t to go to an all powered speaker setup. A friend of mine was going to give me a sweet deal on a pair of JBL prx515 speakers but one of his amps blew out at his last gig. Now I am looking at several options and am hoping some of you have experience with different brands and can help me out. I am using a JBL sf22 dual 12" powered sub for the lows and run my xlr's through that and into my mains. The sub has a 100hz high pass filter on the main outputs so low end isn't a huge concern - however not having to take the 120lb sub to all events might be nice :) I have narrowed it down to a few options - price is a significant factor so keep that in mind.

JBL prx512 $595 each new - last years model and have heard mixed review about the DSP cutting out at lower volumes

Mackie SRM450v2 $599 each new - supposedly fixed several issues from the v1 but have heard reliability could be an issue

QSC K10 $550 each lightly used - Only a 10" main - will that make a difference? have heard really good things about qsc but mostly the 12"

I really want to stay in the $1000 -> $1200 range since that is already stretching my budget. My buddy was going to sell me the prx515 for $400 each

Any help is appreciated :)
 
Posted Tue 01 Feb 11 @ 11:23 am
Hi mate
All the speakers on your short list will do the job fairly well but if you want the big low end you will need to use a sub. Even speakers with 15" bass units have a hard time with the low stuff. this is due to a combination of cabinet size and the fact that they are operating in free air up on stands.
12' units will normaly do ok down to about 150Hz and the better 15" units will go a little lower. Most of the failures come from people trying to get them to do things that they are not capable off ie loadsabass. The lower you go the more power you need so it can be fairly easy to overdive a unit with bass and not have it sound all that loud overall.
10" units realy will need that extra bottom end but a plus is usualy a very clear mid reproduction.

Good luck and remember to listen before you buy. Don't take anyones word for it. If it sounds good to you then go for it.

Daz
 
http://www.pssl.com/Mackie-TH-15A-Thump-15-In-2-Way-Powered-Speaker-

I like these, and this is a good deal. You'll still need a powered sub. On the bright side, if one of these blow, you can always unplug it and finish your set on a single speaker. If your amp blows, you don't have that option.

Always listen before you buy.

Hope that helps. Best of luck to you.
 
Just to clarify these are only the tops - I am using a JBL powered sub for my bass - it is an older model but works pretty well it is a dual 12" bandpass sf22sp with built in 500w amp. http://www.jblpro.com/soundfactor/specs.html

I might have a lead on a qsc hpr151i powered sub from the guy with the K10's but i don't think i will be able to get that kind of cash in time. Also not sure it will be a huge improvement over the JBL I already have.
 
get the QSC K12, and get them new, They come with a SIX year warranty. Nothing like peace of mind.

I have these speakers and they are the best. Heck, you can even hook up your Ipod straight into these.

You can use a separate mic and line, you can use xlr or 1/4" just so many options
 
It is my understanding that the qsc warranty is fully transferable - the owner of the k10's has registered them for the 6- year warranty and he bought them about 2 months ago. K12's are out of my price range.
 
the QSC K12's are excellent. I picked up a pair and they soung really good. They have alot of inputs. XLR, 1/4 and Rca plus mic input. You can also bridge the speakers to make them sound louder. I can dj a party of 130 people without using a subwoofer because they have alot of bass for its size. They weigh 41 pounds and they are compact.

http://www.proaudiostar.com/ I bought mine from here. Call them up and they will give you a better price. The shipping is free. I paid 699 each for mine.
 
jbart19 wrote :
Mackie SRM450v2 $599 each new - supposedly fixed several issues from the v1 but have heard reliability could be an issue


I've owned a pair of the SRM450v1s for seven years. In all that time, not one issue. As Daz pointed out. Most speaker problems are created by some tone def music monkey trying to push them for more than they are intended.....Daz is one of the most experienced sound professionals you are ever going to find. I have yet to see him post one inaccurate piece of information.....
 
I just heard the v1 mackies were a little harsh on the top end - and the v2 come in black instead of that weird blue color. Problem is nowhere local has all 3 brands in stock at the same place to listen to them. There are several GC within a driveable radius but each location seems to have at most 2 of the 3 in stock.

Just got done with my taxes and might have a little more cash than I thought. Also got a message for the guy with the qsc K10's he is willing to sell me the entire set 2 x K10 and a hpr151i for $1800 total could probably swing that considering then I could sell my JBL sub for a few hundred to help make up the difference. Sounds like a pretty good deal considering most places would have retailed that combo for about $2800

Thoughts?

I could keep my sub and get a pair of K12's for $1400 but I like the idea of brand matched components. My Current JBL sub is similar in design to the qsc K-sub (dual 12's) - has anybody compared the HPR151i to the K-sub?
 
Speakers should be your biggest investment in my opinion, you pay for it either way.
 
jbart19 wrote :
I just heard the v1 mackies were a little harsh on the top end - and the v2 come in black instead of that weird blue color


Not true...the v1 is gray and the v2 is blue....the major difference is the v2 is lighter, with a more aggressive attack on the mids....
 
I didnt hear the HPR but i heard the K Sub. The Ksub is a waste of money. Some people buy one and resell it to buy the Kw 181 and others buy two K subs and thats 2000. They buy two because " Now it has bigger lower end " The Ksub just fills in some low end with a loud hum. Even though i didnt hear The HPR sub, Its woofer is facing direct and its ported. The HPR is better than The K Sub. The Sub i am using is the QSC Kw 181. It has better bass responce than two K Subs.
 
Hi mate

If you are going for the K10s then you realy do need to look at a minimum of a 15" sub and preferably a ported, direct radiator ( Speaker facing front). Oddly enough with the 10" units you actualy want the sub to cover the bass frequencies up to 120/150 Hz which might seem a little high but this is where the punch is going to come from. With a 10" driver the K10 would have to work realy hard to produce a usefull bass output below 150Hz even with QSC's excellent on board DSP. The Ksub with its twin 12" units is a bandpass sub and is tuned to a fairly narrow frequency range, IMHO it won't have a wide enough frequency response to fill in properly. If you want to try the sub you already own, see if you can borrow the k10's to check how well they work with it. Then try the 15 and see how mutch of a difference you get with the larger unit.
I suspect that using a twin 12" bandpass sub, at best you wiould end up with a gap in the response of the system overall and at worst you will find that your running the K10's very hard.

Daz
 
Thanks guys - hopefully get to listen to them this weekend. I guess my other option is wait for the prx515's I was originally going to buy off my buddy to get repaired - they are still under warranty. Honestly they are a little big to transport along with the sub I have. ( i drive a convertible and have to put the top down to load the sub into the backseat I personally prefer tighter punchy bass to low rumbly filler. In that aspect i think getting an 18 that will still be tight would be way out of my price range.

As far as K12 vs K10 according to the specs posted in owners manual the frequency response cutoff is either 52hz or 60hz (I realize specs aren't everything) And the top end of the HPR151i is 105Hz I didn't see a response graph to overlay in order to look at the response curve.

40hz doesn't seem like a lot of area for crossover between mains and subs but I also want the cleanest sound from my mains and want to avoid pushing the low register. But both the K12 and K10 can extend below the 100hz high pass filter built into the HPR sub so they wouldn't be getting sent those frequencies anyway - would that cancel out the difference between them?

Also the dispersion cone of the K10's is 90' and the K12's is 75' - being closer to the dance floor in most situations would the larger dispersion make a significant difference? I am a correct in assuming the wider dispersion would typically result in a shorter throw? i.e it won't reach the back of a large room because the energy is less focused.

I do like the idea of later being able to add a second HPR15i and ditching the speaker stands at some point.
 
here is the sad thing , I found a place in winnipeg canada where berringer 315 a for less then 275.00 canadian.
 
that has nothing to do with this thread
 
Hi mate
As far as the specs go I won't argue with what QSC state. I would however say that this spec will be reached using the on board DSP and a huge amount of the available internal amp power. The natural response of a cabinet the size of the K10 is no where near that low. When looking at frequency response information it is also worth taking into account the max SPL ability of the speaker.

To produce a fairly flat response something else usualy suffers. You may find that while the speaker is producing a DSP managed 100db with a fairly flat response curve, it is using nearly 1000Watts of amp power to do it. If the speaker can be used in a frequency range closer to its natural response the power used for the same SPL will drop like a stone. This leaves a happier speaker and provides more headroom power to cope with those sudden peaks.

There is an interesting power split that occurs in any mulitiway system. It is not unusual to find that a three way system will have a 500W bass unit a 100W mid and a 40W horn. Its purely down to phisics and the efficiency of the drivers used. It takes more power to move a 15" base driver at 100Hz and produce 100db than a 1" horn driver producing 100db at 15Khz. Knowing this it also follows that to get a 10" driver to produce 100db at 100Hz is going to be even harder as the smaller cone will need to move further to try to move a similar amount of air.

As far as the dispersion goes the throw will be frequency dependent. This is usualy most noticed with the upper mids and treble response. The sound level you hear at these frequencies becomes more directional. Generaly a speaker with a wider dispersion will produce a more noticable drop in the throw of mid and top frequencies as distance is increased. Obviously the horizontal and vertical dispersion angles will be different. Disperssion becomes very important when deciding how far appart you place the speakers. Too wide and you end up with a hole in the sound level between the speakers. Too close together and you get phase cancellation and comb filtering. Phase cancelation occurs when two sound signals meet. If they are out of phase with each other they cancel out. Comb filtering produces an effect where the sound level alternately gets louder then quieter louder then quieter as you walk from one side of the room to the other.

Daz
 
daz ur rockin my world - love it when you actually get a response from people who know what their talking about on a forum. Thanks - looks like am dusting off a physics equation or two - hope calculus doesn't break my brain - don't use it as often as i used too ! I wish my ears were as good as my math :) THen I could just listen and be done with it but there s a a reason a play music and not make music ;)
 
Thanks for the compliment:-) Wish I could spell as well as I hear LOL.

I should also mention that as you get higher up the frequency band, dispersion naturaly becomes narower. The effect this has is that the treble volume reduces the further off axis the listener is from the speakers center line. this effect is also more noticable the closer you get to the speaker. Who hasn't gone ouch as they passed in front of a speaker when walking across the front of a stage? Its usualy the upper mid and treble that gives you the sudden blast in the ear.

If your speakers are close to the audience try to angle them in slightly towards the center. You can use the dispersion figures provided by the manufacturer to help you decide how much "toe in" to use.

Daz

 
Spec's are a guide, you only really know from using gear ON THE JOB!

I wouldn't use a 10 even at home.
 
59%