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Topic: Need Help..Who uses Turntable here? I've got an OLD ONE!! something to share.. - Page: 1

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Hello everyone, i posted a thread couple of days ago about the turntable and been wanting to have a TT... I've been looking at craiglist and so far no luck on technic 1200 series. I called my uncle yesterday, because he used to DJ back in his days. We had a conversation and it goes llike this..
Me: Hey uncle what going on? i'm just wondering wheres your dj system and whats your TT? (before he even said the brand of his TT)
Uncle: Well my TT is not Technic, because those are the best...I have a gemini... back in the 80s gemini was the bomb then the technic took over..but its in the attic you can get if you want i have tons of crates with music, you can have it or give it to someone...
Me: cool thanx...ill pick it up tom...(i picked it up today damn it was hot in the attic and some of the outside wire kinda melted).
the only porblem i have is that in dont know if its still working..i plugged it in and it did turn ON and the turntable was moving and still has the needle attached...
To techninc users ill give you guys some props, even my uncle recomended it...WOW..anyway i dont know how to use a TT and wondering if anyone here can guide me to the connection and needles and etc...pls help me out..my set up is just RMX and B52 matrix..i wanted to add "my" TT now to this set up..ill be using this gemini TT for the meantime while im still looking for the technic in the future... thnx for the time reading...
 
Posted Sun 12 Jul 09 @ 2:51 pm
 
Hi mate.
Always cool to have a family member who's into DJing. Nice work on finding the replacement styluses Rasza. As I sugested before get yourself set up with a pair of Stanton 500s and change the carts. As you got the TTs for free it should leave you some cash to do this bit.
As they are belt drive TT's , have the belts replaced and grab a couple of spares. Changing the belts is easy. Lift the rubber mat off the platter and slowly rotate it while looking through the hole inthe platter you should see the belt running round a smal pulley. Just reach in and carefully unhook the belt. Then gently lift the platter up and off the deck. swap the belt ,re-fit the platter and hook the new belt over the pulley. Job done. The belts will be gone from all that time in the atic.

If you dont have them already, get hold of a pair of good slip-mats.

How do tou intend to use your TT's? Do you want to play genuine vinyl or set yourself up with Timecode vinyl and use it to control VDJ?

Daz
 
I remember those old Gemini GL's! Actually I too am an old DJ from back in the day, your uncle has it wrong, Technics were already the "bomb" turntables when Gemini decided to kind of try to steal some of that thunder. Technics were the only TTs to have even back then. Direct drive at that. Don't get me wrong, these will be great for having some fun and a great way to learn the old art of turntablism.

Anyhow, follow Daz instructions, he has it right, new needles, new slip mats, new belts and possibly new RCA connections soldered on. There really isn't much to the makeup of a turntable so follow those instructions and you should be up and running.

Now go pick up a Virtual Vinyl or Serato time code solution and you're good to go!!.


DJ RuDe
 
Dazmax wrote :
Hi mate.
Always cool to have a family member who's into DJing. Nice work on finding the replacement styluses Rasza. As I sugested before get yourself set up with a pair of Stanton 500s and change the carts. As you got the TTs for free it should leave you some cash to do this bit.
As they are belt drive TT's , have the belts replaced and grab a couple of spares. Changing the belts is easy. Lift the rubber mat off the platter and slowly rotate it while looking through the hole inthe platter you should see the belt running round a smal pulley. Just reach in and carefully unhook the belt. Then gently lift the platter up and off the deck. swap the belt ,re-fit the platter and hook the new belt over the pulley. Job done. The belts will be gone from all that time in the atic.

If you dont have them already, get hold of a pair of good slip-mats.

How do tou intend to use your TT's? Do you want to play genuine vinyl or set yourself up with Timecode vinyl and use it to control VDJ?

Daz


I will definitely love to do TIMECODE...that what i am aiming for...hmmmm is that the one i can hook it up to my laptop and just get the music from there? TOM..ill try to go to some store and looks for some belt..i wonder if they're all standard...does it matter if its a different brand?
 
Before the 1200's it was the Technics 1300 & 1500 they quit making them in 1977 I believe. I think they were the first direct drive quartz lock pitch control tables out there for professional use (except those dinasaur QRK's the radio stations used)

Nice digital read out to tell you what pitch % you were at and the pitch up and down was by pushbutton so you would increment the pitch .1% each click or if you needed to go faster you held the button down until you got to your tempo. They were semi automatic (i.e. they started when you moved the tonearm) so I had a friend of mine who was in to electronics modify them so the power would remain on all the time when plugged in and the power switch became a start/stop button for the platter.

Only problem with them is they didn't have much isolation built in and you would sometimes get really bad feedback throught the tonearm if the bass cabinet was anywhere close to them. And we had to put quarters on the headshell to ad enought weight to play a slightly warped 12 inch!

Still got em, still work great after 32 years!
 
DJRudeDogg mentioned using these Gemini turntables is "a great way to learn the old art of turntablism". Not to get too picky but part of the definition of the word 'turntablism' includes "Hip-hop turntablist DJs use turntable techniques like beat mixing/matching, scratching, and beat juggling". You might be able to pull off beat mixing, but as for scratching and juggling, there's no way in hell these old belt driven turntable are gonna be adequate for those techniques. You need the instant responsiveness of direct drive turntables in order to pull off scratching and beat juggling techniques. Try scratching with these Gemini turntables, the first thing you'll notice is when hold down the record the platter will pretty much come to a stop and when you release the record platter will take a second to get up to full speed, thus making pretty much every scratch technique impossible. That is simply because belt drive turntables lack the torque necessary for scratching effectively. For now, these turntables will be useful to get you accustomed to the 'feel' of using vinyl, but I think you'll be frustrated by their limitations and will quickly outgrow them. You can pick up a pair of Numark TT1650s for about $150.00 each.

On a side note, don't let anyone tell you that Technics are the best turntables, they may be very dependable and an "industry standard" and renowned for their pitch accuracy when mixing, but if you're looking to do a lot of scratching, there are many superior turntables. Numark and Vestax turntables have a straight tonearm instead of an "S-shaped" one which is far better for anti-skip. And for example, the Numark TTX has adjustable torque speed (up to twice that of the Technics) making it much more responsive than the Technics. I'm not trying to plug Numark decks, it's just that I'm sick of hearing "What, you don't use 1200s?". When I hear that comment I automatically know that person has no idea of what the hell they're talking about. And then there's the guys that say "What, you don't use Serato?", don't even get me started on that lol.
 
lol, Dizzyrocks! I never said Technics were the best today, I said back in the 80's they were the turntable to use. I don't know crap about which ones are the best today. I did use the word "turntablism" were I should have just said something else. I haven't touched a turntable since 1992, but even back then I always used direct drive, so I know the difference and do know what turntablism is so, yeah that word wouldn't describe what he can do with these belt driven Geminis. I was trying to be nice, you know, by not saying basically, that these are pieces of crud and that his uncle didn't know jack about what was top of the line even back the 80's.

Chris, don't worry about it, you can still have some fun with these, but if you want to learn turntablism the easier way then you may want consider direct drive TTs, but it isn't a must. Mr. Dizzy, the first "scratch" DJs of the 70's & early 80's didn't have the luxury of direct drive, pitch control or quartz lock or any of the fancy stuff that came later, they used belt driven TTs made by RCA or whatever brand the DJ happened to have.

I would personally never go back to just plain old turntables, I gave that up for a reason back in '92 when I went to CDs. I would like to add some good DD TTs to use with my Serato set up, timecode only, otherwise I have no desire to EVER go back.


DJ RuDe
 
Hi dizzy.
I absolutely agree with your comments with the exception of the torq comment. Yes I would say that decks like the Technics/Vestax and so on have a higher starting torq but how hard are you putting your hand down on the platter bro. Ime not going to teach you to suck eggs but you would be surprised how much torq these produce. The most usual cause of slow startup or poor recovery on belt drive turntables is a worn or slipping belt. When I started experimenting with scratch and beat juggling some 25 years ago I could only afford a pair of Garrard B200 decks. They came with mains motors and had amazing start torq. I made an external speed control box and away I went. There is no performance advantage to be had between belt and direct drive. There is difference in the relyability of the drive train Ie the belt. I agree that some belt drive decks have wimpy motors (as do many cheap direct drive decks) but this is not a rule. Put a powerfull motor in either and they will work just as well.

Daz
 
OMG, there's no way you can tell me belt drives have the same amount of torque and responsiveness as direct drives. Name one scratch DJ who uses belt driven turntables. I'd take that Pepsi challenge any day of the week.
 
Read the post properly.
I dont have to name anyone and didn't say that they do.
I am refering to the drive system and not any deck in particular.

Daz
 
im not quite sure if its worth having this TT seems like the tone arm is jammed too...i PM daz about the belt that im trying to replace and the platter seems to be jammed or there's some kind of mechanissm, and yes i most likely want to scratch as my effect and feel the vinyl..i wanted to add this to my set up because i wanted to use the TIMECODE since the software has it...trying to maximize the power of the VDJ and yes (I DONT KNOW SERATO--from the new song baby bash "out of control" listen to it they mention SERATO) anyway im thinking buying a new one maybe in couple of months i just need to do some OT at work to purchase this...any recommendation..other than technic 1200 which is so expensive and hard to find..thnx for the time people..
 
dj-e-lectric.....
Don't forget the 1600's & 1800'd which I learned on which had 2 seperate rotary (dial) pitch controls seperately for 33rpm and 45rpm. We had a manual on/off bypass switch installed in ours to defeat the semi-automatic startup. They were a bit heavier than the ones you described.
 
dizzyrocks2001 wrote :
OMG, there's no way you can tell me belt drives have the same amount of torque and responsiveness as direct drives. Name one scratch DJ who uses belt driven turntables. I'd take that Pepsi challenge any day of the week.



Dizzy, never did I say that they would have the same response. Like I mentioned, even back in the 80's I used direct drive with quartz lock, I'm just saying it can be done, it was done. The original DJs who started scratching didn't have the luxury of direct drive, they did it without. If you think timecode is a joke cause it's not real turntabism, think about this, when direct drive TTs came out it was an improvement over belt drives right? DJs at the time said that direct drive "took away" the true talent of scratching because it made it easier for noobs to manipulate the TT thus ruining the true art form of scratching. Believe me it wasn't as easy to make it sound good with belt driven TTs.

There are a whole list of "improvements" that have come out since then. Each new improvement that was released created skepticism and provoked thoughts of losing the true art and challenges of the old way, right? This is what many vinyl & CD spinning DJs say about Serato and VDJ now.

Just like when that fool named Henry Ford had this silly concept of mass-producing motorized carriages!! That idiot should have bought a horse instead right!!

Times change, get over it!!


DJ RuDe
 
just thought id stick in my two cents,

i noticed in your post you asked about how to use this TT "needles and stuff" im not too sure what you meant by that but to me its like you were enquiring as to how to setup your needles....

seeing as no one else seems to have mentioned that, heres what you do

take your tone arm and place it on your record without the TT switched on...
turn the counter weight "counter clockwise" untill the tone are floats freely in mid air at a 90 degree angle.
once this is achieved, using the dial at the end of the counter weight (not the counter weight itself) turn the dial untill the zero is aligned with the mark on the tone arm.

when this is achieved look up the manufacturers recomended nressure and turn the counter weight to the stated weight. then play a record.

if the tone arm scates then change the anti skate dial a bit at a time untill it stops.

not sure what needles your using but the stanton 500's i have use 2 - 5 grms

if you already knew this then just ignore this post...if not then my 2 cents may be worth a litllte more.
 
Chris

It sounds like your decks are semi automatic. They have a gear mechanism which is designed to return the arm to rest at the end of the record. Run the platter with your hand slowly in the direction of play until the arm returns. If you do decide to keep them you can have the mechanism removed and make the deck fully manual.

The Numark TT that Dizzy mentioned is as good a turntable as you will find at the price. Well worth a look.

Ones to avoid would include the Citronic PD1 and PD2 also stay away from anything with a Soundlab badge. These are v cheap Technics 1200 looking decks that just wont do it for you.

Like your analogy Rude! We could all be riding Peny Farthings, they are of course Direct Drive. Not to be confused with anything from Orange County Choppers ( Which could well use a belt).
When I started DJing cheap DD's were pant's and did not have the torq to pull the skin off rice pud. Technics did it first (but not for DJ's it was built as a HIFI TT and quickly adopted by those who knew) and others followed. Now High Torq DD's are the norm and very relyable. They are without doubt the way to go. But it was not always so. belt drive decks can be made that produce as much if not more torq than the best DD's. But belt drive dacks have a flaw which is fatal for a DJ. The belt stretches and the torq is then gone. Hence they dont make em for DJing any more. Not a bad thing.

Daz
 
what bout for 2 technic SL-1200 mk2 $400 for a pair? is it decent price?
 
DJRudeDoGG wrote :
dizzyrocks2001 wrote :
OMG, there's no way you can tell me belt drives have the same amount of torque and responsiveness as direct drives. Name one scratch DJ who uses belt driven turntables. I'd take that Pepsi challenge any day of the week.



Dizzy, never did I say that they would have the same response. Like I mentioned, even back in the 80's I used direct drive with quartz lock, I'm just saying it can be done, it was done. The original DJs who started scratching didn't have the luxury of direct drive, they did it without. If you think timecode is a joke cause it's not real turntabism, think about this, when direct drive TTs came out it was an improvement over belt drives right? DJs at the time said that direct drive "took away" the true talent of scratching because it made it easier for noobs to manipulate the TT thus ruining the true art form of scratching. Believe me it wasn't as easy to make it sound good with belt driven TTs.

There are a whole list of "improvements" that have come out since then. Each new improvement that was released created skepticism and provoked thoughts of losing the true art and challenges of the old way, right? This is what many vinyl & CD spinning DJs say about Serato and VDJ now.

Just like when that fool named Henry Ford had this silly concept of mass-producing motorized carriages!! That idiot should have bought a horse instead right!!

Times change, get over it!!


DJ RuDe

N A M E O N E S C R A T C H D J W H O U S E S B E L T D R I V E N T U R N T A B L E S ! ! ! STOP REMINISCING ABOUT TURNTABLES FROM THE 80'S AND LEADING PEOPLE TO PEOPLE TO BELIEVE THEY ARE AS GOOD AS DIRECT DRIVE TURNTABLES, BECAUSE THEY AREN'T! AND AT WHAT POINT DID I SAY TURNTABLISM WAS A JOKE WITH TIMECODES. IF YOU WANT TO USE YOUR DUSTY OLD BELT DRIVEN TURNTABLES THEN GO AHEAD BUT DON'T GIVE ADVICE THAT WILL RESULT IN SOMEONE WASTING THEIR HARD EARNED MONEY ON THE WRONG TURNTABLES.
 
ok ok ok...now i've been looking at ebay and craiglist and i've seen some TT technic direct drive TT however they have different models..does it matter...technic 1200 m3d model, technic sl 1200, technic sl1200mk2A...whats all the difference between all these ? please help...
 
Hi Chris

Check out this wiki link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SL-1200. It gives the full history of the SL1200 allong with all its features and changes.

If you are looking at second hand ones It is worth getting to see them first and if at all possible play with them. The 1200 is as tough as old boots but its not indestructable. Look out for Platter rocking/clunking (A sign that the motor main bearing is on its way out). Make shure there is no play in the arm bearings (not unrepairable but causes unpredictable skipping)

If you have not used a deck like this it may be worth your while looking at the Numark or similar as a first go. If you get them new they will carry a waranty so at least you have some piece of mind. If your going for the second hand Technics then (again for piece of mind) see if you can find a local dealer to work with.

Daz
 
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