djmagicmoments
Beat grids work fine and hold the bpm in other software. The bpm engine in VDJ8 is just not very good. It should automatically adjust for variances in the BPM. Should be a LIVE BPM read out with an accurate beat grid. Do it right or don't do the beatgrid.
That excuse never worked for me because it happens on EVERY track. Tons of other posts on the exact same issue.
It may be a limitation of the program, which if that is the case, why have a BPM if it can't stay on the beat? Other software can accurately do a 4 beat loop with the way they bpm/beatgrid....
Thanks anyway.
That excuse never worked for me because it happens on EVERY track. Tons of other posts on the exact same issue.
It may be a limitation of the program, which if that is the case, why have a BPM if it can't stay on the beat? Other software can accurately do a 4 beat loop with the way they bpm/beatgrid....
Thanks anyway.
Posted Tue 24 Jun 14 @ 1:35 pm
groovindj
It's not an excuse, it's a fact.
Tracks that were recorded with real musicians (i.e. Aretha) or back when studios used tape and mastered to vinyl (i.e. Billie Jean) will not have a rock steady BPM.
There are two ways of dealing with it. Either use the VDJ 8 variable tempo option and manually add anchors (time consuming) or run the track though Ableton Live and warp it.
I use the latter method. It definitely works. I warp a track to exactly 103 in Live and VDJ 8 detects it as exactly 103. The beat grid is dead on, all the way through the track.
FYI I have already posted a wish for the variable tempo feature to be automated. I have also (for years) asked for VDJ 8 to be given warping functionality.
Tracks that were recorded with real musicians (i.e. Aretha) or back when studios used tape and mastered to vinyl (i.e. Billie Jean) will not have a rock steady BPM.
There are two ways of dealing with it. Either use the VDJ 8 variable tempo option and manually add anchors (time consuming) or run the track though Ableton Live and warp it.
I use the latter method. It definitely works. I warp a track to exactly 103 in Live and VDJ 8 detects it as exactly 103. The beat grid is dead on, all the way through the track.
FYI I have already posted a wish for the variable tempo feature to be automated. I have also (for years) asked for VDJ 8 to be given warping functionality.
Posted Tue 24 Jun 14 @ 1:46 pm
djmagicmoments
Now THAT may work.
I still think the software should adjust to BPM's.
I still think the software should adjust to BPM's.
Posted Tue 24 Jun 14 @ 1:48 pm
groovindj
If you're finding the beat grid is inaccurate on modern tracks too, then please give details.
Posted Tue 24 Jun 14 @ 1:50 pm
djmagicmoments
It is... it's off on every track. I will get examples.
Posted Tue 24 Jun 14 @ 2:00 pm
the SOUND INSURGENT
No DJ software has a wraping feature and yes live can be used to DJ with but it's not DJ software.
I can't think of any software that'll keep up with an unsteady tempo, even with SDJ I have to edit the grid.
I can't think of any software that'll keep up with an unsteady tempo, even with SDJ I have to edit the grid.
Posted Tue 24 Jun 14 @ 2:02 pm
djmagicmoments
Then how does VDJ expect a beat grid EVER stay on beat or a loop to ever work correctly without doctoring all of our tracks?
Mixmeister does variable bpm's very well, right?
Mixmeister does variable bpm's very well, right?
Posted Tue 24 Jun 14 @ 2:31 pm
kradcliffe
Maybe I'm missing something here, but what exactly does beat grid do?
It's a feature I have never used as I mix songs by ear ........ and as Groovin' says a lot of older tracks do not have constant matched beats and have to be adjusted on the fly.
I just couldn't imagine letting the software do the mix for me. Must be old!
It's a feature I have never used as I mix songs by ear ........ and as Groovin' says a lot of older tracks do not have constant matched beats and have to be adjusted on the fly.
I just couldn't imagine letting the software do the mix for me. Must be old!
Posted Tue 24 Jun 14 @ 2:34 pm
djmagicmoments
Of course you don't let the beat grid do the mixing for you (could not be more obvious) but if they are going to have it, it should be correct.
BPM's are a mess, even with a solid track. Older tracks or newer tracks... doesn't matter.
It's being reported. The beat grid is directly effected by the BPM's. If the BPM's are a mess, so is the beat grid.
If it does't work, get rid of it or fix it.
BPM's are a mess, even with a solid track. Older tracks or newer tracks... doesn't matter.
It's being reported. The beat grid is directly effected by the BPM's. If the BPM's are a mess, so is the beat grid.
If it does't work, get rid of it or fix it.
Posted Tue 24 Jun 14 @ 2:38 pm
groovindj
DJ software always assumes that a track has one set steady tempo and one key, and is always in 4/4 time.
Fine if you only play EDM made with DAW software by someone who isn't a musician - but not much use for anything else.
In days gone by, DJs couldn't do anything about drifting tempos except ride the pitch and try to keep things in sync. Now there are all sorts of aids to DJing, but the one thing that's still missing is the ability for DJ software (or hardware in fact) to stabilise the tempo of old drifty tracks.
That's still only the domain of DAW software such as Ableton Live, Cubase etc. which are far more advanced than mere DJ software.
Using your Billie Jean example, most DJs and DJ software will tell you it's 117 BPM. It is.......roughly - but it doesn't stay at exactly 117 all the way through.
Here's what the tempo looks like in Cubase (which shows every tiny variation):
Fine if you only play EDM made with DAW software by someone who isn't a musician - but not much use for anything else.
In days gone by, DJs couldn't do anything about drifting tempos except ride the pitch and try to keep things in sync. Now there are all sorts of aids to DJing, but the one thing that's still missing is the ability for DJ software (or hardware in fact) to stabilise the tempo of old drifty tracks.
That's still only the domain of DAW software such as Ableton Live, Cubase etc. which are far more advanced than mere DJ software.
Using your Billie Jean example, most DJs and DJ software will tell you it's 117 BPM. It is.......roughly - but it doesn't stay at exactly 117 all the way through.
Here's what the tempo looks like in Cubase (which shows every tiny variation):
Posted Tue 24 Jun 14 @ 2:44 pm
djmagicmoments
Exactly, but new tracks drift off tempo as well.
When they drift off tempo, the Beat Grid is off. Agreed?
When they drift off tempo, the Beat Grid is off. Agreed?
Posted Tue 24 Jun 14 @ 2:47 pm
kradcliffe
Good info, thanks!
Posted Tue 24 Jun 14 @ 2:47 pm
groovindj
djmagicmoments wrote :
Exactly, but new tracks drift off tempo as well.
Examples?
By the way, even though many more tracks now are made with a steady tempo (thanks to technology), there's still no guarantee that it'll be 100% locked down.
The producer can/may introduce deliberate changes to add "groove" or "swing" to a track (DAWs have built in options for it) which varies the positions of the beats. They may add tempo changes for the same reason. There may be sections of the track which have an uneven bar/beat count - which could be done on purpose during the recording, or could be simply caused by someone performing a bad edit once the track has left the studio.
Posted Tue 24 Jun 14 @ 3:02 pm
the SOUND INSURGENT
Man just upload a video or some of these so called modern tracks already. You keep saying you'll give examples but the ones you've given aren't steady to begin with.......... Not trying to be a dick but where's the tracks???
Posted Tue 24 Jun 14 @ 3:27 pm
djmagicmoments
Beatbreaker1, with all due respect, you can go help someone else. This is a friendly community and your comment was out of line.
I work all day so I will upload when I get home. NOT ONCE has a developer asked for a video until today, even though I have offered in everyone of my posts.
I work all day so I will upload when I get home. NOT ONCE has a developer asked for a video until today, even though I have offered in everyone of my posts.
Posted Tue 24 Jun 14 @ 4:06 pm
groovindj
djmagicmoments wrote :
NOT ONCE has a developer asked for a video until today, even though I have offered in everyone of my posts.
Probably because you've been posting one-offs here there and everywhere, they've gone unnoticed due to the volume of other posts.
Rather than wait for "permission" why not just upload one? The more info you provide, the quicker the issue can be addressed.
Posted Tue 24 Jun 14 @ 4:18 pm
the SOUND INSURGENT
Bro that's my point, you have been saying it but we got nothing yet.
I'm saying just upload or tell us some track names cause no one from the team is gonna beg you to do it.
I to have ran into this issue but it's no where near as extreme as your saying and I to am on multiple macs.
And in my defense you never mentioned you were at work.
I'm saying just upload or tell us some track names cause no one from the team is gonna beg you to do it.
I to have ran into this issue but it's no where near as extreme as your saying and I to am on multiple macs.
And in my defense you never mentioned you were at work.
Posted Tue 24 Jun 14 @ 4:19 pm
djmagicmoments
Honestly Beatbreaker, I would prefer that you not reply to my post about this... Thanks.
You or grooving are NOT developers. You are users just like me. You are not fixing the problems. It has been reported by many people as a bug and confirmed by a developer. Since then, nothing has been done.
I certainly appreciate your help but I would like a DEVELOPER to look at this, as he said he would in an earlier post. Again, thank you guys but I will post the video and look forward to the reply from the developer who can without a doubt tell me if it is a bug or a natural way the program is to run. That will determine if I move on or not.
So again, thanks... but I want someone from the staff to look at it, not a fellow user. There are plenty of times where I rely on your advice but this is one for the developers. A fellow user can not tell me the way the software is made to run, if the beat grid is correct and if the BPM's should act this way.
You or grooving are NOT developers. You are users just like me. You are not fixing the problems. It has been reported by many people as a bug and confirmed by a developer. Since then, nothing has been done.
I certainly appreciate your help but I would like a DEVELOPER to look at this, as he said he would in an earlier post. Again, thank you guys but I will post the video and look forward to the reply from the developer who can without a doubt tell me if it is a bug or a natural way the program is to run. That will determine if I move on or not.
So again, thanks... but I want someone from the staff to look at it, not a fellow user. There are plenty of times where I rely on your advice but this is one for the developers. A fellow user can not tell me the way the software is made to run, if the beat grid is correct and if the BPM's should act this way.
Posted Tue 24 Jun 14 @ 4:34 pm
groovindj
You could've just contacted support on day one in that case, rather than posting repeatedly on the forum (where most replies are from users).
You could also have directly emailed Adion or Stephane back in May if you had to have personal service from a dev.
:-/
You could also have directly emailed Adion or Stephane back in May if you had to have personal service from a dev.
:-/
Posted Tue 24 Jun 14 @ 4:50 pm
djmagicmoments
Great advice... too much runaround otherwise.
It's either a bug or not and another user is not going to be able to tell me that. No disrespect meant, as you know.
It's either a bug or not and another user is not going to be able to tell me that. No disrespect meant, as you know.
Posted Tue 24 Jun 14 @ 6:34 pm
