GlobeTap
From what I hear rane demoed a video version of serato at a conference just a few days ago. Not sure what the release date is going to be but I sure hope VDJ gets a mac version soon or Atomix is going to have a hard time keeping what market share it has.
Posted Thu 25 Jan 07 @ 12:25 am
ConQuest
GlobeTap wrote :
From what I hear rane demoed a video version of serato at a conference just a few days ago. Not sure what the release date is going to be but I sure hope VDJ gets a mac version soon or Atomix is going to have a hard time keeping what market share it has.
Yup. That's always been my biggest concern, and it doesn't have any marketshare worth noting here in the U.S. among professional turntablists and dj's.
I was told a couple of months back that Atomix was FAR ahead of Rane SSL in delivering video capabilities, but I have reason to believe otherwise because of things I've engaged in and people I've spoken with in the past couple of weeks. I've been with my boy "Shortkut" of the Invisibl Skratch Picklz and world famous Beat Junkies the past couple of weeks (2 weeks ago I was in his hometown of San Francisco for MacWorld and last weekend he was down here in Los Angeles showcasing for Rane at NAMM) and I could feel that something was up when I talking to him about Virtual DJ & Virtual Vinyl. =(
The only thing we can do now is hit the market first and try to convert people as quickly as possible. I know I have done, and will continue to do my part to get VDJ/VV adopted among as many new purchasers as well as potential Serato "switchers" as possible! =)
Posted Thu 25 Jan 07 @ 12:37 am
DJBIGMARK
Yeah my insider tells me the video is schedule to be released by june 07. the program is rock solid and has nice features in place. It will have the left & right screen to view the video as well as a middle screen for the output. Serato is right on track to take over the video world!
Posted Thu 25 Jan 07 @ 12:41 am
bagpuss
Wow SSL has finally caught onto yesterdays technology.., where will VDJ be by the time they Nail Video?
Posted Thu 25 Jan 07 @ 12:49 am
ConQuest
DJBIGMARK wrote :
Yeah my insider tells me the video is schedule to be released by june 07. the program is rock solid and has nice features in place. It will have the left & right screen to view the video as well as a middle screen for the output. Serato is right on track to take over the video world!
Despite having been told otherwise in that Rane was far from delivering video, being in the tech industry myself, I knew that it was probably only a 6 month lead time at most.
The good news is that if VDJ & Virtual Vinyl seamlessly integrate with SSL both in terms of software and hardware (digitizer/TCV's) then it really doesn't matter and we'll have a good 1/2 a year jump on Serato users! =D
Posted Thu 25 Jan 07 @ 12:53 am
anewsome
Bagpuss wrote :
Wow SSL has finally caught onto yesterdays technology.., where will VDJ be by the time they Nail Video?
actually, video mixing with tcv is still pretty cutting edge, even if it's in vdj for over a year now. look at the number of programs on the market that have good support for tcv mixing videos. not a whole lot of options.
i'd say in this case, serato is pretty *early* to the game.
the fact that the first serato release with a bpm counter was this week, shows they might be a little behind the curve on features but ssl has never been a cutting edge app when it comes to feature count.
however, i think they are EARLY to the game with videos. right in stride with computer capability that will be required to do this video mixing at a reasonable price point.
and since they've already been talking about FREE music videos to spin with at whitelabel.net, just like they have FREE mp3 tracks now. well. i think it's pretty clear that a few thousand serato users and clubs with ssl installed will be very interested to see what the new application is all about.
Posted Thu 25 Jan 07 @ 12:59 am
Rune (DJ-In-Norway)
PCDJ does video too, so does a few others.. but its not very good ;) Still far to go to reach VDJ standard and use of video mix.. And I guess Serato has a long way too, after all, VDJ has done video mixing for years.
And SSL needs effects, midi triggering of fx, and lots more to catch up... VDJ has had effects made for a long time by CEL and others;)
And it doesnt look that impressive;) but good that the competition is getting stronger, makes us all work even harder;) hehe
And SSL needs effects, midi triggering of fx, and lots more to catch up... VDJ has had effects made for a long time by CEL and others;)
And it doesnt look that impressive;) but good that the competition is getting stronger, makes us all work even harder;) hehe
Posted Thu 25 Jan 07 @ 1:12 am
bagpuss
Well within the realm of Virtual DJ users (hundreds of thousands) video is very much yesterdays technology, as you said, we've had it for ages, you think anyones going to lose sleep over SSL finally developing video? don't think so, I think more are interested in what's next for us. In terms of Audio and live remixing capability, VDJ has only scratched the surface in my opinion. As an all-in-one solution for the mobile DJ, quality can be improved in all departments. SSL adding video, a bit of healthy competition sure, but it's no kind of threat for what's on offer here.
Posted Thu 25 Jan 07 @ 1:17 am
Charlie Five
Well, Bagpuss, there is a threat. Its the "Industry Standard" for computer DJ's (at least in the US)...And its been MAC compatible...Serato is flawless when it comes to audio. Vitual DJ is definitely ahead of the game cause of its video capabilities but Serato's beat mapping and TCV are more crisp and precise. I know it doesn't show im a registered user but I am familiar with both programs.
Posted Thu 25 Jan 07 @ 2:38 am
ConQuest
We DEFINATELY have a clash in cultures here. Bagpuss and other VDJ (and soon VV) users don't realize how BIG of a challenge they are facing in going up against Rane SSL in the professional turntablist and dj markets. Where they are emphasizing extra features, professionals over here don't care about those unles the AUDIO response can handle ANYTHING that can be thrown at it. SSL can, VDJ/VV (at the moment) can't.
Those extra features are only extra features that don't mean a thing if a turntablist can't perform his/her primary tasks like mixing, scratching, beat juggling, etc.
One thing that I've noticed as well from having read through these forums that made me realize that we have a culture clash, is the LACk of emphasis placed on REAL turntablists and dj's, meaning more than simple beat matchers.
Here in the U.S., if you tune into ANY of the LEADING Rap/R&B/Top40 radio stations in ANY city, you'll CONSTANTLY here TURNTABLISTS ripping it up (again; scratching, doubles, beat juggling, etc.) LIVE in the mix and it's even required in pre-recorded mixes.
Seriously, it's a CONSTANT battle between on-air turntablists to prove who has the better turntablists (even though they still incorrectly refer to them as dj's). Believe me I know that's true here in LA and in MOST metropolitan areas all throughout the US, having worked for Power106 on-air staff while having my dj partners and friends not only at that station, but at the direct competion like 93.5 KDAY AND 100.3 The BEAT - before they went all R&B recently and changed to V100.
THAT is the problem here. It seems that some of Atomix's staff doesn't understand how FIERCE the competition is in the US radio market, and guess what?
COMPETITIVE RADIO TURNTABLISTS DON'T CARE ABOUT VIDEO IF THE AUDIO IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH... BECAUSE IT'S RADIO!!!
Those same turntablists go out to do clubs and mobiles and influence EVERYONE! They're NOT going to use SSL at the station and then Virtual Vinyl at their clubs and mobiles because they are hired to be exceptional AUDIO dj's, NOT video dj's.
Now I KNOW that IF Virtual DJ and Virtual Vinyl is as good as SSL audio wise, then people like myself can easily influence some "switchers" to VDJ/VV ONLY until SSL adds video in less than 6 months. It'll get MUCH harder after that.
And you want to know something else? Even if the first version of SSL's video features aren't as good as VDJ/VV's video features, they won't care. Because SSL is INDUSTRY STANDARD for SERIOUS AUDIO PERFORMANCE and video mixing is JUST AN ADDED FEATURE.
By the time VISUAL TURNTABLISM becomes the minimum standard (I say 1-2 years), you better believe SSL will be as good as VDJ/VV in EVERY way. The ONLY chance that VDJ/VV have is to allow it's users to SEAMLESSLY INTEGRATE into SSL environments.
I believe this will be the case and THAT is why I'm satnding by Atomix/Numark and their Virtual DJ/Virtual Vinyl product.
Those extra features are only extra features that don't mean a thing if a turntablist can't perform his/her primary tasks like mixing, scratching, beat juggling, etc.
One thing that I've noticed as well from having read through these forums that made me realize that we have a culture clash, is the LACk of emphasis placed on REAL turntablists and dj's, meaning more than simple beat matchers.
Here in the U.S., if you tune into ANY of the LEADING Rap/R&B/Top40 radio stations in ANY city, you'll CONSTANTLY here TURNTABLISTS ripping it up (again; scratching, doubles, beat juggling, etc.) LIVE in the mix and it's even required in pre-recorded mixes.
Seriously, it's a CONSTANT battle between on-air turntablists to prove who has the better turntablists (even though they still incorrectly refer to them as dj's). Believe me I know that's true here in LA and in MOST metropolitan areas all throughout the US, having worked for Power106 on-air staff while having my dj partners and friends not only at that station, but at the direct competion like 93.5 KDAY AND 100.3 The BEAT - before they went all R&B recently and changed to V100.
THAT is the problem here. It seems that some of Atomix's staff doesn't understand how FIERCE the competition is in the US radio market, and guess what?
COMPETITIVE RADIO TURNTABLISTS DON'T CARE ABOUT VIDEO IF THE AUDIO IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH... BECAUSE IT'S RADIO!!!
Those same turntablists go out to do clubs and mobiles and influence EVERYONE! They're NOT going to use SSL at the station and then Virtual Vinyl at their clubs and mobiles because they are hired to be exceptional AUDIO dj's, NOT video dj's.
Now I KNOW that IF Virtual DJ and Virtual Vinyl is as good as SSL audio wise, then people like myself can easily influence some "switchers" to VDJ/VV ONLY until SSL adds video in less than 6 months. It'll get MUCH harder after that.
And you want to know something else? Even if the first version of SSL's video features aren't as good as VDJ/VV's video features, they won't care. Because SSL is INDUSTRY STANDARD for SERIOUS AUDIO PERFORMANCE and video mixing is JUST AN ADDED FEATURE.
By the time VISUAL TURNTABLISM becomes the minimum standard (I say 1-2 years), you better believe SSL will be as good as VDJ/VV in EVERY way. The ONLY chance that VDJ/VV have is to allow it's users to SEAMLESSLY INTEGRATE into SSL environments.
I believe this will be the case and THAT is why I'm satnding by Atomix/Numark and their Virtual DJ/Virtual Vinyl product.
Posted Thu 25 Jan 07 @ 3:18 am
funkturnal
I agree with Conquest for the most part. Its all going to depend on what SSL is going to release. Will it work with exsisting boxes, or do you need a new one. Can you just buy the program etc.
The whole mac with vdj/vv is a big deal, get it done!!
---"Those extra features are only extra features that don't mean a thing if a turntablist can't perform his/her primary tasks like mixing, scratching, beat juggling, etc."
Very very true.
Any more info on details?
The whole mac with vdj/vv is a big deal, get it done!!
---"Those extra features are only extra features that don't mean a thing if a turntablist can't perform his/her primary tasks like mixing, scratching, beat juggling, etc."
Very very true.
Any more info on details?
Posted Thu 25 Jan 07 @ 6:43 am
ConQuest
Thanks for the re-enforcement "funk" (I'm just gonna call you funk because it sounds coooooool) =)
BTW, great job on that video that you put up last week demonstrating VDJ's video capabilities. You're a good turntablist, so much props! ;)
I just don't want anyone to think I'm bashing Atomix's efforts simply because I'm trying to make them aware of what they may not have taken into consideration because of differences in lifestyles, cultures, and relevant to VDJ/VV, differences in the IMPORTANCE of catering to VERY competetive turntablist/dj markets here in the U.S including radio, club, and mobile artists.
With it's 4 million+ users in the Eastern hemisphere, it seems that they incorrectly thought they could easily penetrate the SSL on Mac dominated professional turntablist and dj market.
Reality is about to bite, but at least we can ease the pain by being aware of what measures we can take to keep the Rane dog from biting us really hard.
Posted Thu 25 Jan 07 @ 6:58 am
313ctro
Just want to add that the video feature in SSL is not actually going to be "in" SSL. It is a separate application that "talks" with SSL. So those that don't want video affecting their precious SSL audio don't have to worry. It will also be a paid upgrade, it will not be free. MIDI, however, will be in the free 1.8 update.
And that video dj-in-norway posted is actually a few months old. There have been much improvements since then. New videos from NAMM will be up soon.
And that video dj-in-norway posted is actually a few months old. There have been much improvements since then. New videos from NAMM will be up soon.
Posted Thu 25 Jan 07 @ 7:00 am
ConQuest
Hi Rane spy... um, I mean "313ctro". ;)
Good info and thanks! ... unfortunately, now we must kill you.
=P
Posted Thu 25 Jan 07 @ 7:11 am
funkturnal
np, I know your not bashing. Just informing the house heads (beat mixers) : )
---"I to am a house/breakbeat/dnb/trance head."---
Any idea on price points for the upgrade? Any details on how the application will talk to ssl?
---"I to am a house/breakbeat/dnb/trance head."---
Any idea on price points for the upgrade? Any details on how the application will talk to ssl?
Posted Thu 25 Jan 07 @ 7:12 am
ConQuest
funkturnal wrote :
np, I know your not bashing. Just informing the house heads (beat mixers) : )
---"I to am a house/breakbeat/dnb/trance head."---
Any idea on price points for the upgrade? Any details on how the application will talk to ssl?
---"I to am a house/breakbeat/dnb/trance head."---
Any idea on price points for the upgrade? Any details on how the application will talk to ssl?
Do you mean the "cross-grade"? VDJ Pro windows to VDJ Pro Mac ? If so, that's free.
i don't know anything in regrads to VDJ/VV's integration with SSL other than the new 3rd gen TCV's are supposed to be very similar to Serato's TCV's and have the same features. I'm hoping that we'll be able to plug into a SSL digitizer and use VDJ/VV software on the fly and therefore enable the video output.
One can only hope... =)
Posted Thu 25 Jan 07 @ 7:24 am
313ctro
I'm not a spy nor do I work for Rane or Serato. I'm just a fanboy user. Spy would imply I use VDJ, which I don't, anymore at least. And I didn't come here to start trouble (this time), just passing along information.
No funkturnal, there has been no mention of price yet, or how the application works/talks with SSL.
No funkturnal, there has been no mention of price yet, or how the application works/talks with SSL.
Posted Thu 25 Jan 07 @ 7:25 am
ConQuest
313ctro wrote :
I'm not a spy nor do I work for Rane or Serato. I'm just a fanboy user. Spy would imply I use VDJ, which I don't, anymore at least. And I didn't come here to start trouble (this time), just passing along information.
I was just kidding. ;)
313ctro wrote :
No funkturnal, there has been no mention of price yet, or how the application works/talks with SSL.
Oh, did funk mean how the separate video application for SSL will work/talk to SSL?
I thought he meant how Virtual Vinyl would integrate into an SSL environment. Plug and Play, I always say! =)
Posted Thu 25 Jan 07 @ 7:30 am
cstoll
Even if it is a plug-in / add-on type module - what will be interesting is it's level of supported codecs. Is it going to be straight VOB support or will they support DivX, 3ivX, MPEG-1, MPEG-2, etc.
It one thing to have the capability, it totally different to have multiple supported choices.
It one thing to have the capability, it totally different to have multiple supported choices.
Posted Thu 25 Jan 07 @ 8:09 am
Steve Lynch
I don't know why everyone is so up in arms about serato... I've been using thye tcv with VV every night for the last month, and never lost tracking once. It's rock solid... One show I do, I had two local turntable gurus come up and ask what I was doing, and I showed them... they played around for a few minutes, and were floored!
One of them is meeting me next week, because he wants to ditch serato based on what he saw VDJ do.
with the right soundcard, VDJ TCV is smokin' accurate, and rock solid.
another thing is, turntablists are a small sliver of the market share.
For every one turntablist, there's probably 30 Mobile DJ's and 10 club dj's. if you see the polls on prodj, and dj chat, and all that, serato has the least number of users, PCDJ is 1st, and VDJ, a close second....
you say "professional DJ" I don't consider a guy who works at a club on the weekends a professional DJ. not to put him down, A dj is a DJ... but until your tax forms contain nothing but money earned DJing, it's not your profession. The majority of professional DJ's are not using turntables. every poll I've seen in any website, publication, or anywhere else puts turntablists in the minority. It's fun, it's cool to watch, it's a viable djing option, but most people are not using serato in mobile or club rigs... I say most....
not to say that no one is using it. by no means.
PC technology has caught up with mac in stability terms... I use mac for everything but DJing. I was macless for a while, now I'm switched back again. I prefer it... But I haven't had a single issue ever with VDJ since the day I switched over... It runs flawlessly on everything I've installed it on, all the way down to a P3 600... (audio, not video)
however.....
mac audio apps have their share of ghosts in the machine too. pc's are by no means crashpits if you're a responsible PC user, and maintain your shit!
I'm drooling waiting for a mac port of vdj too, but I don't think by any means that VDJ is losing people in droves over not having a version available right now.
But I don't fear serato.... I've owned it for a short time, and ebayed it..., and found it featureless compared to VDJ.
for the "hey look at me, I'm a turntablist" crowd, VDJ is just as viable as serato...... if you're part of the "hey look at me, I pay my mortgage and car payment by DJing" crowd, VDJ is also a phenomenal solution...
Serato is not feature rich enough for widespread mass appeal... it's a niche tool... a damn good one, but a solution for a small demographic none the less...
One of them is meeting me next week, because he wants to ditch serato based on what he saw VDJ do.
with the right soundcard, VDJ TCV is smokin' accurate, and rock solid.
another thing is, turntablists are a small sliver of the market share.
For every one turntablist, there's probably 30 Mobile DJ's and 10 club dj's. if you see the polls on prodj, and dj chat, and all that, serato has the least number of users, PCDJ is 1st, and VDJ, a close second....
you say "professional DJ" I don't consider a guy who works at a club on the weekends a professional DJ. not to put him down, A dj is a DJ... but until your tax forms contain nothing but money earned DJing, it's not your profession. The majority of professional DJ's are not using turntables. every poll I've seen in any website, publication, or anywhere else puts turntablists in the minority. It's fun, it's cool to watch, it's a viable djing option, but most people are not using serato in mobile or club rigs... I say most....
not to say that no one is using it. by no means.
PC technology has caught up with mac in stability terms... I use mac for everything but DJing. I was macless for a while, now I'm switched back again. I prefer it... But I haven't had a single issue ever with VDJ since the day I switched over... It runs flawlessly on everything I've installed it on, all the way down to a P3 600... (audio, not video)
however.....
mac audio apps have their share of ghosts in the machine too. pc's are by no means crashpits if you're a responsible PC user, and maintain your shit!
I'm drooling waiting for a mac port of vdj too, but I don't think by any means that VDJ is losing people in droves over not having a version available right now.
But I don't fear serato.... I've owned it for a short time, and ebayed it..., and found it featureless compared to VDJ.
for the "hey look at me, I'm a turntablist" crowd, VDJ is just as viable as serato...... if you're part of the "hey look at me, I pay my mortgage and car payment by DJing" crowd, VDJ is also a phenomenal solution...
Serato is not feature rich enough for widespread mass appeal... it's a niche tool... a damn good one, but a solution for a small demographic none the less...
Posted Thu 25 Jan 07 @ 10:30 am
