groovindj
Just because the BPM reads incorrectly, it shouldn't stop you being able to mix them. They'll still play back at the same tempo as they did in VDJ 7. :-)
If you want to correct the BPM then there's the BPM Editor, or even the tap button.
If you want to correct the BPM then there's the BPM Editor, or even the tap button.
Posted Wed 07 Jan 15 @ 4:39 pm
raypitman
WoW, nice thread!
Maybe you should all take one song and use it as a referance. A classic song that gets played very often... ok..thinking..thinking... celebration from Kool and the Gang!
modern technology can not put this song into a bpm rating ... because it was recorded by real people and not by a machine!
please stop arguing about who or what is right or wrong,
if we work together we can get all of these "old" songs sorted out, for instance i can get this song to beat matcth perfecty .. both in and out!
But there are many thousands of such songs, stop blaming the software, start looking for solutions.
peace,love and happiness ... from an old entertainer
Maybe you should all take one song and use it as a referance. A classic song that gets played very often... ok..thinking..thinking... celebration from Kool and the Gang!
modern technology can not put this song into a bpm rating ... because it was recorded by real people and not by a machine!
please stop arguing about who or what is right or wrong,
if we work together we can get all of these "old" songs sorted out, for instance i can get this song to beat matcth perfecty .. both in and out!
But there are many thousands of such songs, stop blaming the software, start looking for solutions.
peace,love and happiness ... from an old entertainer
Posted Wed 07 Jan 15 @ 5:37 pm
bagpuss
Beat tap is the quickest and most reliable way to get an accurate BPM reading, if you have the talent to tap to a beat that is.
Other options include running the incorrect readings through a program like mixed in key, with two readings one is bound to be correct, alternatively use a mixer such as a DJM, which will give you a BPM readout as well as allow you to tap.
Still if the software can be improved in this area then it should be.
Other options include running the incorrect readings through a program like mixed in key, with two readings one is bound to be correct, alternatively use a mixer such as a DJM, which will give you a BPM readout as well as allow you to tap.
Still if the software can be improved in this area then it should be.
Posted Thu 08 Jan 15 @ 9:57 am
groovindj
Running through Mixed In Key used to be a viable option with VDJ 7, but now VDJ 8 overrides data such as BPM and key that already exists in tags.
It really ought to be our choice which tag values (VDJ or other s/w) get used by/written to the DB.
It really ought to be our choice which tag values (VDJ or other s/w) get used by/written to the DB.
Posted Thu 08 Jan 15 @ 10:14 am
Adion
By default vdj doesn't write to tags at all, so it is your choice.
Posted Thu 08 Jan 15 @ 10:18 am
groovindj
Maybe I didn't phrase it very well. I've reworded it slightly now.
What I mean is, VDJ 8 uses the info from its own analysis rather than the info that's already there.
When I first started using VDJ 8, I found that it would not respect the key value written to my files by MIK, but use the analysed value.
In my second sentence I mean if there's tag info in the file already, it should be up to us whether VDJ uses that info for the DB rather than the analysed value.
If I use MIK to detect key, I want that value to be retained and written to the VDJ DB, not the one analysed by VDJ. It should be my choice.
What I mean is, VDJ 8 uses the info from its own analysis rather than the info that's already there.
When I first started using VDJ 8, I found that it would not respect the key value written to my files by MIK, but use the analysed value.
In my second sentence I mean if there's tag info in the file already, it should be up to us whether VDJ uses that info for the DB rather than the analysed value.
If I use MIK to detect key, I want that value to be retained and written to the VDJ DB, not the one analysed by VDJ. It should be my choice.
Posted Thu 08 Jan 15 @ 10:45 am
PhantomDeejay
Oh... and BTW it's not speed vs. accuracy Actually it never was!
In order for an application to calculate the BPM's it creates an envelope of the bass frequencies. Then it tries to count the peaks, determine a rhythm pattern (like 4/4 or 9/8 e.t.c) and divide the peaks with the duration of the track.
The difficult part in the whole process is to create an envelope that allows you to count the peaks with accuracy. In other words to filter out the correct frequencies.
Different music genres use different base drum frequencies, bass sounds may overlay drums base or create extra peaks e.t.c
That's where the inaccuracy comes from.
It's not a matter of how fast you create the envelope. It matters only how much accurate representation of the actual drum kicks this envelope is...
PS: Before anyone accuse me for this, I must warn you that I have oversimplified the real process, just to get the picture of how software calculates the BPM's ;)
In order for an application to calculate the BPM's it creates an envelope of the bass frequencies. Then it tries to count the peaks, determine a rhythm pattern (like 4/4 or 9/8 e.t.c) and divide the peaks with the duration of the track.
The difficult part in the whole process is to create an envelope that allows you to count the peaks with accuracy. In other words to filter out the correct frequencies.
Different music genres use different base drum frequencies, bass sounds may overlay drums base or create extra peaks e.t.c
That's where the inaccuracy comes from.
It's not a matter of how fast you create the envelope. It matters only how much accurate representation of the actual drum kicks this envelope is...
PS: Before anyone accuse me for this, I must warn you that I have oversimplified the real process, just to get the picture of how software calculates the BPM's ;)
Posted Thu 08 Jan 15 @ 10:52 am
PhantomDeejay
groovindj wrote :
Maybe I didn't phrase it very well. I've reworded it slightly now.
What I mean is, VDJ 8 uses the info from its own analysis rather than the info that's already there.
When I first started using VDJ 8, I found that it would not respect the key value written to my files by MIK, but use the analysed value.
In my second sentence I mean if there's tag info in the file already, it should be up to us whether VDJ uses that info for the DB rather than the analysed value.
If I use MIK to detect key, I want that value to be retained and written to the VDJ DB, not the one analysed by VDJ. It should be my choice.
What I mean is, VDJ 8 uses the info from its own analysis rather than the info that's already there.
When I first started using VDJ 8, I found that it would not respect the key value written to my files by MIK, but use the analysed value.
In my second sentence I mean if there's tag info in the file already, it should be up to us whether VDJ uses that info for the DB rather than the analysed value.
If I use MIK to detect key, I want that value to be retained and written to the VDJ DB, not the one analysed by VDJ. It should be my choice.
True, but in order to get "consistent" results, you should always use the same analyze method.
Let me explain:
Let's say that we have 2 software titles, A & B.
They both analyze keys.
Software B has a bug and always detect the key 2 semitones up.
If you use "mixed" results (some songs analyzed from software A, some from B) then you would get weird results (songs not matching their key) despite the fact they show the "same" key
Now, let's say that software B does not have a bug
However software A and software B have a different approach on calculating the key. On several cases they will come up with different results. However, as soon as you use the same engine for analyzing you are much more safe against the case using results from 2 different engines ;)
Posted Thu 08 Jan 15 @ 11:00 am
groovindj
I paid for MIK. It's generally regarded as the most accurate key detection software. I would prefer to use the MIK key results.
Unfortunately VDJ 8 doesn't respect that there's a value already present, but uses its own value. Not what I want!
VDJ 7 did respect the existing key - which was a good thing due to 7 being minor key biased. Even now with 8 having better key results, it's not as good (IMO) as MIK.
Unfortunately VDJ 8 doesn't respect that there's a value already present, but uses its own value. Not what I want!
VDJ 7 did respect the existing key - which was a good thing due to 7 being minor key biased. Even now with 8 having better key results, it's not as good (IMO) as MIK.
Posted Thu 08 Jan 15 @ 11:10 am
wickedmix
I have to agree with groovin on this
Posted Thu 08 Jan 15 @ 11:58 am
bagpuss
Personally I write all my key data from MIK to the comments field, MIK is generally more accurate, but there are occassions when VDJ is right over MIK, so there's a benefit from having 2 readings.
Posted Thu 08 Jan 15 @ 12:18 pm
PachN
The v8 database has an attribute called "altBpm".
Maybe its possible to store alternative BPM values of third party programms into this attribute, and give us an option to choose between "altBpm" and "bpm"?
Maybe its possible to store alternative BPM values of third party programms into this attribute, and give us an option to choose between "altBpm" and "bpm"?
Posted Thu 08 Jan 15 @ 2:48 pm