jimmy b
Many thanks everybody. I've taken everything you said on board.
Just had a meeting with the bar owner and I told her that I would like to be paid and she has said OK and both agreed on a price, result.
Once again many thanks dude's.
Just had a meeting with the bar owner and I told her that I would like to be paid and she has said OK and both agreed on a price, result.
Once again many thanks dude's.
Posted Sat 30 Jun 07 @ 1:48 pm
DJShahar.com
for the future, have a minimum rate.
45/hr is as low as most of the dj's i know will go.
45/hr is as low as most of the dj's i know will go.
Posted Sat 30 Jun 07 @ 2:06 pm
bagpuss
45 in what currency?
The problem with DJ'ing for free with a "free staff bar" is that they are still on your expense, had you not been there in the first place you wouldn't need to using the overpriced bar "for free" in the first place, you'd be at home drinking far less at a far less cost, so I find the "free staff bar" but no cash a complete insult.
When I walk into a club, I don't just take a talent that's taken me years to craft, I take thousands of pounds worth of music and equipment, my expenditure for a nights work is about 12% of what I take, then I've got to pay tax, I'd rather pay my money to a charity than a bar.
The problem with DJ'ing for free with a "free staff bar" is that they are still on your expense, had you not been there in the first place you wouldn't need to using the overpriced bar "for free" in the first place, you'd be at home drinking far less at a far less cost, so I find the "free staff bar" but no cash a complete insult.
When I walk into a club, I don't just take a talent that's taken me years to craft, I take thousands of pounds worth of music and equipment, my expenditure for a nights work is about 12% of what I take, then I've got to pay tax, I'd rather pay my money to a charity than a bar.
Posted Sat 30 Jun 07 @ 7:40 pm
Dazmax
Just a note from another UKDJ.
It is fairly unusual in the UK to work with a contract if your a mobile Guy. Most will require cash up front before setting up for the gig. Some of the afore mentioned Upper Middle Class Twits can and do try to screw you but it dosent take long for word to get around the local DJ comunity and they soon find themselves high and dry cause no one will work for them ( I think it was Al Cappone that said "You can get further with a kind word,and a busted bar window than just a kind word") or something like that. Residency gigs are diferent , you would normaly expect some form of contract with them.
To me a free trial is not a good idea, certainly not for 3 weeks. Even if you work a deal for a fee based on the door count its better than nothing then at least if you start to draw the crowd you get the rewards.
Wish you luck with it
Daz
It is fairly unusual in the UK to work with a contract if your a mobile Guy. Most will require cash up front before setting up for the gig. Some of the afore mentioned Upper Middle Class Twits can and do try to screw you but it dosent take long for word to get around the local DJ comunity and they soon find themselves high and dry cause no one will work for them ( I think it was Al Cappone that said "You can get further with a kind word,and a busted bar window than just a kind word") or something like that. Residency gigs are diferent , you would normaly expect some form of contract with them.
To me a free trial is not a good idea, certainly not for 3 weeks. Even if you work a deal for a fee based on the door count its better than nothing then at least if you start to draw the crowd you get the rewards.
Wish you luck with it
Daz
Posted Sun 01 Jul 07 @ 1:36 am
Double O
Sometimes the only way a DJ without any experience can get a chance at a club is by initially DJing for free. This is how I got my first chance to DJ in a club. This is the only situation that I would recommend someone DJ for free.
OO
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Posted Sun 01 Jul 07 @ 9:05 am
Charlie Five
Another good way to get in is to get paid on the sales. I do alot of my weekday gigs like this. I ask for 'X' amount just to come in (about half of what I would normally charge for a Thursday through Saturday) than ask for a percentage of the sales. Usually 10-15%. I then do my normal promotions and seek out other DJ's to do guest spots and pay them off of the sales that I get (around 5%). That way the more people you get collectively in spending bucks, the more everyone makes. Makes sense for a smaller venue on a cheap drink night, $2 beers or whatever, when they can't shell out the big $$
Posted Sun 01 Jul 07 @ 10:26 am
DJ Marcel_1
CHARL1E F1VE wrote :
Another good way to get in is to get paid on the sales. I do alot of my weekday gigs like this. I ask for 'X' amount just to come in (about half of what I would normally charge for a Thursday through Saturday) than ask for a percentage of the sales. Usually 10-15%. I then do my normal promotions and seek out other DJ's to do guest spots and pay them off of the sales that I get (around 5%). That way the more people you get collectively in spending bucks, the more everyone makes. Makes sense for a smaller venue on a cheap drink night, $2 beers or whatever, when they can't shell out the big $$
Good idea, Excellent Idea as a matter of fact.
Posted Sun 01 Jul 07 @ 5:11 pm
mini reaper
followin all that everyone said already......u might dot it free for a little while...but people will overdo FAVORS and will say do more......draw the line...they need u (u might need em) but they need u more....
Posted Mon 02 Jul 07 @ 5:38 am
asymptote
From my 30 years of experience.
The trouble with doing free gigs for experience is that the venue will always tend to see you as that 'inexperienced dj who can't get any paid work.
If you need to do it try to do it in a town where nobody knows you.
A bit like when the guy said to the girl. Can we make love like doggies do. She said. OK but only if it's in a street where nobody knows me!
Working for nothing means you are being bent over.
A DJ needs to have a certain amount of ego and confidence and believe that they are good at what they do.
The trouble with doing free gigs for experience is that the venue will always tend to see you as that 'inexperienced dj who can't get any paid work.
If you need to do it try to do it in a town where nobody knows you.
A bit like when the guy said to the girl. Can we make love like doggies do. She said. OK but only if it's in a street where nobody knows me!
Working for nothing means you are being bent over.
A DJ needs to have a certain amount of ego and confidence and believe that they are good at what they do.
Posted Mon 02 Jul 07 @ 12:00 pm
CanSpoilU
I would NEVER work an entire night for free DJing unless it was for charity.
How long should it take for this lady to find out if "it will work out". Frankly she shouldn't be concerned if the "night" will work out... the thing in question here is whether or not "YOU" will work out.
How long should it take her to figure out if you are a good enough DJ? 1-2 hours TOPS? I would give her a free hour or two TOPS... then let her decide if its worth keeping you around and be paid.
Its bad enough giving her one free night. You are willing to give her MULTPILE free nights? No offense... but my god that is bad.
EDIT: Just saw your update and you got her to pay her. Good for you! You made the right move. Enjoy your new PAID gig.
How long should it take for this lady to find out if "it will work out". Frankly she shouldn't be concerned if the "night" will work out... the thing in question here is whether or not "YOU" will work out.
How long should it take her to figure out if you are a good enough DJ? 1-2 hours TOPS? I would give her a free hour or two TOPS... then let her decide if its worth keeping you around and be paid.
Its bad enough giving her one free night. You are willing to give her MULTPILE free nights? No offense... but my god that is bad.
EDIT: Just saw your update and you got her to pay her. Good for you! You made the right move. Enjoy your new PAID gig.
Posted Mon 02 Jul 07 @ 7:56 pm
BARKLEY340
As an up and coming DJ you have to know when to hold them, and know when to fold them. There could be a lot of emotional factors that come in play when it comes to DJing. For one, you are excited of the fact that you are not playing from your bedroom or basement and this is a chance to get some exposure. Try to get over this feeling very quickly because bar owner will take advantage of you.
I\'m not saying that you should not DJ for free because not everyone hits a homerun on their first pitch, but you have to determine the advantages of going in that direction. I have seen owners negotiate a percentage of the bar, but you are taking on the risk of not getting paid. We got to remember that this is not our establishment. The night you DJ belongs to the owner to some degree, and it very easy for the owner to replace you after all the hard work you did getting people or not getting people to the bar or club. People are becoming more savy of about what club they go to and the music is one component of the equation. If the music is satisfactory and the washrooms are not clean and customer service is poor and the atmosphere sucks and the place is whole in the wall, it\'s not the DJ fault that people don\'t stay (Even though I\'ve enjoyed some hole in the wall parties). You did your job by providing the entertainment and you should be compensated for it.
This is a very grimey business and bar owners will always take advantage of the situation. It always seems that they have all the money but no business ethics or sense. Sometimes doing it for free results in other gigs by the end of the night, but more often then not, it ends up being a waist of time.
I\'m not saying that you should not DJ for free because not everyone hits a homerun on their first pitch, but you have to determine the advantages of going in that direction. I have seen owners negotiate a percentage of the bar, but you are taking on the risk of not getting paid. We got to remember that this is not our establishment. The night you DJ belongs to the owner to some degree, and it very easy for the owner to replace you after all the hard work you did getting people or not getting people to the bar or club. People are becoming more savy of about what club they go to and the music is one component of the equation. If the music is satisfactory and the washrooms are not clean and customer service is poor and the atmosphere sucks and the place is whole in the wall, it\'s not the DJ fault that people don\'t stay (Even though I\'ve enjoyed some hole in the wall parties). You did your job by providing the entertainment and you should be compensated for it.
This is a very grimey business and bar owners will always take advantage of the situation. It always seems that they have all the money but no business ethics or sense. Sometimes doing it for free results in other gigs by the end of the night, but more often then not, it ends up being a waist of time.
Posted Wed 04 Jul 07 @ 7:05 am
therealbjthedj
ill be honest, i love it when rookies get Free nights, they never do a better job than a vetran dj, hell after the owners see the rookies and compare them to a vet, it only makes the vets that more valuble, the more rookies i see, the higher my contract goes
Posted Wed 04 Jul 07 @ 7:32 am
asymptote
therealbjthedj wrote :
ill be honest, i love it when rookies get Free nights, they never do a better job than a vetran dj, hell after the owners see the rookies and compare them to a vet, it only makes the vets that more valuble, the more rookies i see, the higher my contract goes
It's a hard world but that's the way it is.
Theres a world of difference between home djing and with an audience too. On the right night with the right crowd it's an unforgettable experience.
Posted Wed 04 Jul 07 @ 12:06 pm
Charlie Five
+2 --^-- I had a guest play on tuesday with me. I made $600 he made $0. He only played for about a half hour (45 min) or so but when I got back on the decks I slammed the crowd. Put some sing along tracks on and cut the fader at the right time. Crowds singing and dancing for the rest of the night. It just gave me a chance to showcase my skills compared to others.
Posted Fri 06 Jul 07 @ 3:20 am
dj-e-lectric
After 25 years in the business it still amazes me tha bar owners have the nerve to ask and dj's have the low self esteem issues to play for free "to see if it works". Can you imagine getting a job at any business from a wal-mart cashier to a mercedes benz engineer agreeing to work for free "to see if it works out". Bar owners can only get away with this only because too many dj wanna be's don't have the confidence (real confindence inside themselves not the macho for show kind of bravado) or skill to know they can compete for real jobs against real dj's. It's nice to live at home with mommy and daddy and have no bills, download all your music illegally, probably cop a serial number from someone for your virtual dj, move a record back and forth to make noise with it and call yourself a DJ. Me, I have a mortgage, other proerty investments in three states, 2 car payments, utliities, insurance (auto, homeowners, renters and business), gas and travel expenses, food and my hobbies.........needless to say I don't play for free.
The biggest scam of all is playing for free at a club with a long line of eager volunteers because "everyone" wants to play there. Obviously this club has forged out a niche and it doesn't matter who the Dj is because they have a digfferent Dj every week so you are just adding to the greedy bottom line of the owner by being just another exploited entertainer.
If you really feel the need to fall for the "if it works we'll pay you" (which by the way means the owner wants a promoter and not a dj) then at least get them to agree up front to pay you a % of the bar or door charge and then go be a promoter and make your money.
Like they said in the 60's "Ass, Grass or Gas....nobody rides for free!
The biggest scam of all is playing for free at a club with a long line of eager volunteers because "everyone" wants to play there. Obviously this club has forged out a niche and it doesn't matter who the Dj is because they have a digfferent Dj every week so you are just adding to the greedy bottom line of the owner by being just another exploited entertainer.
If you really feel the need to fall for the "if it works we'll pay you" (which by the way means the owner wants a promoter and not a dj) then at least get them to agree up front to pay you a % of the bar or door charge and then go be a promoter and make your money.
Like they said in the 60's "Ass, Grass or Gas....nobody rides for free!
Posted Fri 06 Jul 07 @ 6:18 pm
bagpuss
I've recently taken a simular view to a lot of the people on this forum. Before, I had shaken my head at just how greedy some of you seem to be, how many of you are obsessed with money as if that's all there is to life.
I've been in danger of being too nice, the problem is the world isn't nice, not in a capitalistic society (which is what most of us live in), everyone is out to take from you, looking at online banking all I see is "take take take", everyone seems to be taking except for me, and that doesn't make financial sense.
So I'm going to convert to the ways of taking, you have to in order to survive.
Guessed it yet? I'm looking at mortgages.., depressing.. believe me.
I've been in danger of being too nice, the problem is the world isn't nice, not in a capitalistic society (which is what most of us live in), everyone is out to take from you, looking at online banking all I see is "take take take", everyone seems to be taking except for me, and that doesn't make financial sense.
So I'm going to convert to the ways of taking, you have to in order to survive.
Guessed it yet? I'm looking at mortgages.., depressing.. believe me.
Posted Fri 06 Jul 07 @ 6:27 pm
digimixer
Must say im shocked at how many people are advising not to do it for free.
Alot of you are saying 'i'd never do it for free', but you are talking in the context of yourself and how your lives are now . You have plenty of experience and confidence, ofcourse you wouldnt do it for free - now.
But put yourself in this guy's shoes, he's never done it before, he's looking to gain experience and build a rep, those two things alone are priceless to a DJ, you can't put a price on getting that kinda of experince infront of that kinda crowd.
Hell, when i was starting out i'd of been willing to pay for the privelage myself, i think it's just as much as an investment as buying your decks, speakers & music!
Alot of you are saying 'i'd never do it for free', but you are talking in the context of yourself and how your lives are now . You have plenty of experience and confidence, ofcourse you wouldnt do it for free - now.
But put yourself in this guy's shoes, he's never done it before, he's looking to gain experience and build a rep, those two things alone are priceless to a DJ, you can't put a price on getting that kinda of experince infront of that kinda crowd.
Hell, when i was starting out i'd of been willing to pay for the privelage myself, i think it's just as much as an investment as buying your decks, speakers & music!
Posted Fri 06 Jul 07 @ 9:35 pm
CanSpoilU
digimixer wrote :
But put yourself in this guy's shoes, he's never done it before, he's looking to gain experience and build a rep, those two things alone are priceless to a DJ, you can't put a price on getting that kinda of experince infront of that kinda crowd.
But put yourself in this guy's shoes, he's never done it before, he's looking to gain experience and build a rep, those two things alone are priceless to a DJ, you can't put a price on getting that kinda of experince infront of that kinda crowd.
I don't think people here are saying to NOT do it for free. But originally this bonehead bar owner wanted this DJ to work MULTIPLE NIGHTS for free. Thats just nuts if you ask me.
If you want to work for free to get into a bar.... fine. Work for free for a PARTIAL shift... maybe an hour or two.
Frankly it should not take a bar owner longer than a few hours to figure out if you are worth his time or not. It definitely should not take a few weeks. Ugh.
As established as I am DJing... I still wouldn't mind doing a free / tryout gig here and there if I am really desperate for the work. But if I do this... I only give them TOPS one or two hours. If they like me so bad and the people are coming in and enjoying the music... I expect to get paid or else the music gets shut off and I leave.
Posted Fri 06 Jul 07 @ 9:49 pm
bagpuss
I agree with that to a certain extent, I got most of my experience from listening to other DJ's in clubs (in terms of the variation and song selection), learnt to mix at home over the course of a few years, did a few house parties for free and had a wicked time (more fun than a club but so risky). I basically trained myself up to a level that I believed exceeded the level of the majority of DJ's in my town.
At that moment I was confident I was worth the money, and never offered my services for free (although it was tempting at times), the only thing I did for free was my trial which only lasted 90 minutes, after that trial I got 3 months worth of bookings.
At that moment I was confident I was worth the money, and never offered my services for free (although it was tempting at times), the only thing I did for free was my trial which only lasted 90 minutes, after that trial I got 3 months worth of bookings.
Posted Fri 06 Jul 07 @ 9:50 pm
nwtampaguy34
i did the same went to clubs to listen and then practiced at home and did house partys for me and friends for free and then i did a couple weddings and then after about 1 1/2 years when i actually hit 21 (fake id) i did do my first gig in a south chicago burb in 1990 for free but it was for only 2 hours and the decision was made. i got the job. however found myself having more fun doing weddings and partys. i got to eat there food and drink there booze and even hit on there women what more could a young dj want. now just gettin back into the digital dj. anyway i am goin on. just sayin shouldnt take more then a few hours to get things done
Posted Sat 07 Jul 07 @ 1:05 am