virtualdjmg
i have just bought the virtual dj pro - internet 1/2 price deal, how lucky.
i have only bought it to find out a little bit about how djs think.
the reason being, i have written a dance track which is 3 and a half minutes long and am embarking on a club mix which is about 7 minutes. i would like this track if good enough to maybe be played at a club one day.
i dont ever plan to be a dj, but am intriued by the dj world which has exploded into something massive it seems.
i am tyring to find out how the majority of djs would handle my club mix.
i have already been practising mixing trance like tracks(club mix versions) on virtual dj.
although i am haveing trouble setting up my headphones
my music isnt trance although it has some of that feel and it also apparently sounds abit RAVE-LIKE.
currently i have
bar 1-8 kick drum and hi hhats
bar 8-24 a new percussive section (african styl drumming already)
bar 25-32 another percussion section (still no bass instrument )
bar 33 - 65 a melodic motif taken from the main melody with heaps of percussive stuff underneath and no bass line - plenty of tribal percussion though
bar 66 - the start of the full melody and then the piece continues.
what i am worried about, i have realised is when do djs fade into my track
i have (in my opinion) something quite african percussive type as early as bar 9 after the opening 8 bars are kick and hihhats.
i am worried that this section will be glanced over and it is important to my structure. to generate the feel of the whole piece.
(my opinion of course)
i am wondering if i make the first 8 bars longer to 16 so there is more chance of the dj fading into my track by the time the african-like percussion starts.
i have only bought it to find out a little bit about how djs think.
the reason being, i have written a dance track which is 3 and a half minutes long and am embarking on a club mix which is about 7 minutes. i would like this track if good enough to maybe be played at a club one day.
i dont ever plan to be a dj, but am intriued by the dj world which has exploded into something massive it seems.
i am tyring to find out how the majority of djs would handle my club mix.
i have already been practising mixing trance like tracks(club mix versions) on virtual dj.
although i am haveing trouble setting up my headphones
my music isnt trance although it has some of that feel and it also apparently sounds abit RAVE-LIKE.
currently i have
bar 1-8 kick drum and hi hhats
bar 8-24 a new percussive section (african styl drumming already)
bar 25-32 another percussion section (still no bass instrument )
bar 33 - 65 a melodic motif taken from the main melody with heaps of percussive stuff underneath and no bass line - plenty of tribal percussion though
bar 66 - the start of the full melody and then the piece continues.
what i am worried about, i have realised is when do djs fade into my track
i have (in my opinion) something quite african percussive type as early as bar 9 after the opening 8 bars are kick and hihhats.
i am worried that this section will be glanced over and it is important to my structure. to generate the feel of the whole piece.
(my opinion of course)
i am wondering if i make the first 8 bars longer to 16 so there is more chance of the dj fading into my track by the time the african-like percussion starts.
Posted Tue 27 Jun 06 @ 8:30 pm
phillydj
By 8 bars do you mean measures? whats the bpm of it? 8 measures is more than enough for anyhting under 130. if you mean bars as in 1/4 of a measure the 16 would be alot better how many seconds does it play before it gets into the african percusion? i wouldn't worry too much anyway, the all mighty loop feature can fix all
Posted Tue 27 Jun 06 @ 8:33 pm
Andrew87
You may want to upload a low bitrate version of your track (with audible watermarks) to a site like myspace so people can give you some constructive criticism; it should help everyone.
Posted Tue 27 Jun 06 @ 8:47 pm
Rune (DJ-In-Norway)
the intro should be 32 beats long;)
Thats "dj friendly" club version of a song
You can read abit on song structure here :
http://www.virtualdj.com/forums/6288/Mix_lessons/DJ_MIXING___basic_-_advanced_-_pro.html
Thats "dj friendly" club version of a song
You can read abit on song structure here :
http://www.virtualdj.com/forums/6288/Mix_lessons/DJ_MIXING___basic_-_advanced_-_pro.html
Posted Tue 27 Jun 06 @ 9:08 pm
virtualdjmg
the piece is 140 BPM and therefore the first 8 bars take 14 seconds.
the African percussion like stuff already starts at bar 9 so the question is, is that enough, although I am leaning towards 16 bars now, after the replies.
the african percussion like section then moves to bar 32, and on top of the african drumming a motif starts at this bar 33. THis next section goes to bar 64 and at 65 the real main melody starts
I have planned it that the dj fades out at bar 9, or bar 33, or maybe somewhere in between, which i am finding as an interesting effect on my virtual dj software.
although i would like for my stuff to be heard from bar 9
the African percussion like stuff already starts at bar 9 so the question is, is that enough, although I am leaning towards 16 bars now, after the replies.
the african percussion like section then moves to bar 32, and on top of the african drumming a motif starts at this bar 33. THis next section goes to bar 64 and at 65 the real main melody starts
I have planned it that the dj fades out at bar 9, or bar 33, or maybe somewhere in between, which i am finding as an interesting effect on my virtual dj software.
although i would like for my stuff to be heard from bar 9
Posted Wed 28 Jun 06 @ 1:21 am
phillydj
14 seconds is more than enough time for me ....what about everyone else? 14 second i would be able to have the fader fully over just in time to catch the first of the african perc.
Posted Wed 28 Jun 06 @ 1:28 am
Rune (DJ-In-Norway)
You beatmix in structure of the song, and that means that it will sounds best (generally) to do it on the 32 beat count..
Posted Wed 28 Jun 06 @ 1:28 am
phillydj
but his song should start of pretty hard if it's a techno with percusion in front beside we can loop it if need be...lol that or chop and screw it since it seems to be the popular choice
Posted Wed 28 Jun 06 @ 1:32 am
virtualdjmg
thanks for the replies you guys. so much appreciated
i am also thinking about djs who dont use software like virtual dj, but mainly just vynil, incase i ever release this on vynil.
they would not have loop capabilites in this case
i am also thinking about djs who dont use software like virtual dj, but mainly just vynil, incase i ever release this on vynil.
they would not have loop capabilites in this case
Posted Wed 28 Jun 06 @ 1:33 am
phillydj
so true , there so much more you can do on mp3 and cd ,,,but vice versa
Posted Wed 28 Jun 06 @ 1:42 am
DJ PHIL IT
the 32 beat count is very good
Posted Wed 28 Jun 06 @ 2:32 am
DJ_whiteDVL
loops on vinyl....
we tend to call it beat juggling. All the tricks you guys have with MP3s we can do on vinyl. other then beatgrid of course although I'd say 90% of the effects you hear can be duplicated using nothing more then 2 turntables and a plain mixer. Even flanger.
As for song structure don't EVER make an intro based on time!!!! Count your beats.
Intro - 32
verse - 64
chorus - 32
verse - 64
chorus - 32
break - 32
This is the normal song structure for ANY genre. its all grouped in 32s
Best Regards
DJ White Devil
we tend to call it beat juggling. All the tricks you guys have with MP3s we can do on vinyl. other then beatgrid of course although I'd say 90% of the effects you hear can be duplicated using nothing more then 2 turntables and a plain mixer. Even flanger.
As for song structure don't EVER make an intro based on time!!!! Count your beats.
Intro - 32
verse - 64
chorus - 32
verse - 64
chorus - 32
break - 32
This is the normal song structure for ANY genre. its all grouped in 32s
Best Regards
DJ White Devil
Posted Wed 28 Jun 06 @ 3:18 am
virtualdjmg
dj-in-norway came up with this basic simplistic structure in the post that you
guys suggested
INTRO - 16 Bars
VERSE 1 - 16 bars (4 phrases)
CHORUS 1 - 8 Bars (2 phrases)
BRIDGE - 8 Bars
VERSE 2 - 16 bars (4 phrases)
CHORUS 2 - 8 Bars (2 phrases)
BIG BREAKDOWN - 16 Bars
CHORUS 3 - 8 Bars (2 phrases)
VERSE 3 - 16 Bars (4 phrases)
CHORUS 4 - 8 Bars (2 phrases)
CHORUS 5 - 8 Bars (2 phrases)
END - 16 Bars
is this more for vocal trance or vocal anything, because mine is instrumental and my structure doesnt follow that too much.
mind you i have been experimenting with a new beat, and stuffing up.
guys suggested
INTRO - 16 Bars
VERSE 1 - 16 bars (4 phrases)
CHORUS 1 - 8 Bars (2 phrases)
BRIDGE - 8 Bars
VERSE 2 - 16 bars (4 phrases)
CHORUS 2 - 8 Bars (2 phrases)
BIG BREAKDOWN - 16 Bars
CHORUS 3 - 8 Bars (2 phrases)
VERSE 3 - 16 Bars (4 phrases)
CHORUS 4 - 8 Bars (2 phrases)
CHORUS 5 - 8 Bars (2 phrases)
END - 16 Bars
is this more for vocal trance or vocal anything, because mine is instrumental and my structure doesnt follow that too much.
mind you i have been experimenting with a new beat, and stuffing up.
Posted Wed 28 Jun 06 @ 8:29 am
Rune (DJ-In-Norway)
thats the simples form of a dance track... the formula for a dance/house song:)
Look at White Devils post above, for a general song structure.. for most songs out there.. :)
A general song is this (last typically 4-6 minutes):
Intro - 32
verse - 64
chorus - 32
verse - 64
chorus - 32
break - 32
A typical club remix of a house/dance/trance track is often this (last typically 8-12 minutes):
INTRO - 16 Bars (= 64 beats)
VERSE 1 - 16 bars (4 phrases) (= 64 beats)
CHORUS 1 - 8 Bars (2 phrases) (= 32 beats)
BRIDGE - 8 Bars (= 32 beats)
VERSE 2 - 16 bars (4 phrases) (= 64 beats)
CHORUS 2 - 8 Bars (2 phrases) (= 32 beats)
BIG BREAKDOWN - 16 Bars (= 64 beats)
CHORUS 3 - 8 Bars (2 phrases) (= 32 beats)
VERSE 3 - 16 Bars (4 phrases) (= 64 beats)
CHORUS 4 - 8 Bars (2 phrases) (= 32 beats)
CHORUS 5 - 8 Bars (2 phrases) (= 32 beats)
END/OUTRO - 16 Bars (= 64 beats)
As you see ALL logic are made of 32 beats... Verses beeing 2 x 32 beats, and Chorus 32 beats etc
Look at White Devils post above, for a general song structure.. for most songs out there.. :)
A general song is this (last typically 4-6 minutes):
Intro - 32
verse - 64
chorus - 32
verse - 64
chorus - 32
break - 32
A typical club remix of a house/dance/trance track is often this (last typically 8-12 minutes):
INTRO - 16 Bars (= 64 beats)
VERSE 1 - 16 bars (4 phrases) (= 64 beats)
CHORUS 1 - 8 Bars (2 phrases) (= 32 beats)
BRIDGE - 8 Bars (= 32 beats)
VERSE 2 - 16 bars (4 phrases) (= 64 beats)
CHORUS 2 - 8 Bars (2 phrases) (= 32 beats)
BIG BREAKDOWN - 16 Bars (= 64 beats)
CHORUS 3 - 8 Bars (2 phrases) (= 32 beats)
VERSE 3 - 16 Bars (4 phrases) (= 64 beats)
CHORUS 4 - 8 Bars (2 phrases) (= 32 beats)
CHORUS 5 - 8 Bars (2 phrases) (= 32 beats)
END/OUTRO - 16 Bars (= 64 beats)
As you see ALL logic are made of 32 beats... Verses beeing 2 x 32 beats, and Chorus 32 beats etc
Posted Wed 28 Jun 06 @ 8:36 am
virtualdjmg
thanks dj in norway,
what about just instrumentals.
I have read the words motifs and themes in articles about instrumental structure.
what about just instrumentals.
I have read the words motifs and themes in articles about instrumental structure.
Posted Wed 28 Jun 06 @ 8:44 am
virtualdjmg
my dance tune which is 3 and 1/2 minutes has a strange structure.
A B C &(shortA)
It happened naturally with a new beat experiment.
I am trying to get the club mix a little more like everything else so that it has a chance of maybe occasionally getting played, and not throw everything out too much.
So I am bumbling away.
A B C &(shortA)
It happened naturally with a new beat experiment.
I am trying to get the club mix a little more like everything else so that it has a chance of maybe occasionally getting played, and not throw everything out too much.
So I am bumbling away.
Posted Wed 28 Jun 06 @ 8:49 am
Rune (DJ-In-Norway)
you said this in your first post:
" have written a dance track which is 3 and a half minutes long and am embarking on a club mix which is about 7 minutes"
Follows White Devils formula for your 3:30 minutes long track (Often called radio edit).
Then follow more mine (not like a slave, but something like my formula) for the 7:00 minutes long track (often called a club remix or extented version).
But as a rule, make it based on 32 beats! ;)
Your intro : 32 beats
Your verse : 2x 32 beats
Your chourus : 32 beats.
etc etc...
Even if its an instrumental, you "must" follow these principles, or people hearing it will get comfused and not like it.. Music is made by 32 beat logics, all 4/4 beat music that is...
;)
" have written a dance track which is 3 and a half minutes long and am embarking on a club mix which is about 7 minutes"
Follows White Devils formula for your 3:30 minutes long track (Often called radio edit).
Then follow more mine (not like a slave, but something like my formula) for the 7:00 minutes long track (often called a club remix or extented version).
But as a rule, make it based on 32 beats! ;)
Your intro : 32 beats
Your verse : 2x 32 beats
Your chourus : 32 beats.
etc etc...
Even if its an instrumental, you "must" follow these principles, or people hearing it will get comfused and not like it.. Music is made by 32 beat logics, all 4/4 beat music that is...
;)
Posted Wed 28 Jun 06 @ 8:50 am
erxon
If you are the producer, than you decide the structure of your track - period. There is no such thing as basic structure, since there are milions of different genres of music. What Dj-in-norway suggested is the 'basic' structure of commercial pop, dance (etc.) songs, but you will hardly find such structures (some lack short brakes, some songs are just one long manipulated loop, etc.) in genres such as techno, house, trance, that are not mainstream (as mentioned, 32 beat phrases are logic for such songs, sometimes even longer). So it's up to you and your stile :)
What you are asking for is only mix time for making DJs' mix easier (which follows the same principle in all genres)- in this case I would suggest that you compare your intro/outro (mixtime) with songs that match (or are similar to) your track's genre.
The best way to perfect it is to understand and experience DJing, in my case when I was starting to make my first songs, VDj helped a lot.
Regards.
What you are asking for is only mix time for making DJs' mix easier (which follows the same principle in all genres)- in this case I would suggest that you compare your intro/outro (mixtime) with songs that match (or are similar to) your track's genre.
The best way to perfect it is to understand and experience DJing, in my case when I was starting to make my first songs, VDj helped a lot.
Regards.
Posted Wed 28 Jun 06 @ 8:57 am
virtualdjmg
thanks you guys, for such a fantastic response.
i will go away and do what i feel is needed, with now the insights into the mix-in intro, which is why I started this TOPIC.
VIRTUAL DJ is really helping too.
i will go away and do what i feel is needed, with now the insights into the mix-in intro, which is why I started this TOPIC.
VIRTUAL DJ is really helping too.
Posted Wed 28 Jun 06 @ 9:00 am
Rune (DJ-In-Norway)
erxon wrote :
...as mentioned, 32 beat phrases are logic for such songs, sometimes even longer.
Me and White made the beat structure as EXAMPLES! ;)
Of course not all songs have EXACT same structure, but ALL songs are based on 32 beats!
All 4/4 music that is.
its 32 beats... and not sometimes LONGER as you say;)
Listen to your songs... you will not find one that is 38 beats, or 40 beats in the songs structure.
Posted Wed 28 Jun 06 @ 9:10 am
