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Topic: You should read this please. - Page: 1

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Hi everyone, Before i begin, i would like to say that, this is my opinion, and everyone here has a different opinion.

The following is an experience that i want to share with you all, the kind of people who need a small word of support and courage to do what they are happy with. And at this time, im that person.

Earlier today, i had met a DJ who was in the works for around 5 years (CDplayers) and now is into Sound systems and speakers. I met up with him for the reason that i needed some guidance to be a good dj.

I want to get one thing straight. Im a student and i cant commit to Djing as a profession. Its my passion, and my hobby, which will last as long as theres hope and support.

Firstly, my question to him was that, i want to be good at what im doing and i want certain guides, and upon him asking me about what i use, i said, i use a software called VDJ... His immediate response was, chuck the software, chuck the pc...Use cd players, thats where the actual skill lies and also that the quality of sound doesnt match to that of a cd. This would be true to some extent.

Well, i was at a position where i didnt know what to do next, He kept suppressing my connection with VDJ and he said, if i want to be good, i should just get cd players and forget about my pc.

I had (still have) plans on rackmounting my system, getting a good mixer (my NUmark DXM01 mixer is not rackmountable,) and the dac2. All this, rackmounted, would make my dream come true... But there he was, telling me that i should switch to cd players. Why? Because its not right to use a software! And again why? Because its too easy and doesnt require ny skill! still why not? Because (finally) "mp3s are sh*t compared to cds..."

He also made me talk to other "great"Djs and they said that Computer djing is for fun, its not the real thing. "You are just wasting your time with that VDJ software"

At this moment, Im in a state of confusion, I cant invest in something that will not evenbe my profession, and i dont even know if i can recover the money. i dont know where to go from here. I just want to be happy as a DJ and never been happier when the VDJ screen pops up. I rock the dance floor at parties but people dont even pay me cause im a pc dj. But i play all the music that makes people go crazy.

I love music, and its my passion,i just want some guidance...
Am i going the right way?
Is it ok for me to stick to VDJ no matter what others say?
Can i spend my cash on Upgrading my system?

Somebody out there has been through this, and most of you are DJing for lots of years...I just need help...please help me out here... I love VDJ. and i love to DJ, And i dont understand whats wrong with DJing on a pc, as far as its the same music thats being played......
Going out to all DJs...
Thanks for reading my emotional breakout! hehe...IM still so confused...why isn't it ok to use VDJ to DJ????

 

Posted Thu 12 Jan 06 @ 4:12 pm
mp3jrickPRO InfinityHonorary MemberMember since 2003
And some djs just can't tipe and spayell.....so they reassure themselves by discrediting what they can't do.
You can't stop technology, and he is not about to re learn his methods using a different format.
The same thing happend when cds were first used by the vinyl guys, let it rest.

You do what you feel comfortable with and build on that.
 

Posted Thu 12 Jan 06 @ 4:19 pm
djejPRO InfinityMember since 2004
Don't despair my friend. As Rick said, you can't stop technology. Plus with all the external controllers available, you can use TCV or TCCD and do the same as with vinyl or CD's...plus with many other options. You just heard one person's opinion and that person was loyal to what they learned. I bet a good demo of vdj and timecodes would change his mind.
 

Posted Thu 12 Jan 06 @ 4:23 pm
Wow, quick reponses, Thanks a lot, I know u guys have been in the works for quite long. That makes a lot of difference to me!
Thank you...
This community rocks!
 

Posted Thu 12 Jan 06 @ 4:26 pm
Hi adi. I agree with what rick and ej have said. I used to use vinyl and cds but I have discovered vdj and find it really suits my needs. go with what you are comfortable using and keep having fun. Some people aren't going to chang e no matter what. I have learned a lot from the guys in this forum and will continue to do so.
Good luck

Nikki
 

Posted Thu 12 Jan 06 @ 4:47 pm
frd1963PRO InfinityMember since 2004
How would he feel if someone told him that a REAL DJ uses vinyl? Throw away the CD players and buy a pair of turntables.
Don't worry, it is probably just his own insecurity because he is afraid that if he shows you some tricks, etc. that you have the tools to be able to execute them even better than he, with less practice. There will always be resistance to new technology, but the innovators think beyond that, leaving the resistant in the dust.

If you are doing this for your own enjoyment, then continue to do it that way that you enjoy. If you are looking to make money, then you will have to do what people are willing to pay for, just like any job. I do this for my own enjoyment and luckily am able to make money at the same time. Of course I don't expect to go into a big NYC club with my computer, because that world is still ruled by vinyl, though many do integrate samplers and other digital equipment too.

 

Posted Thu 12 Jan 06 @ 4:50 pm
bagpussPRO InfinityMember since 2003
Mixing with a computer is more real than any other means if your mixing music that has been made within that last ten years (or even 30!), the computer is the main instrument in producing music these days, it's the instrument that is used to mix compilation CD's, and it's the ultimate instrument for mixing music.., usually people feel this is all well and good but miss hands on control.., nobody wants to see a "DJ" with no gear but a laptop.., but add a Hercules or Dac and you've got dual CD control, use an external mixer and your doing the same thing.

When you don't use the waveform in VDJ you only have the edge of BPM's which CD players share, you use a mixer, so do "CD" DJ's, no difference.., however, use a pair of CD players too and you've got the best of both worlds, practice useing the CD players with regualr CD's and timecode.

I suggest you buy the best pair of CD decks you can afford, set up TCCD, use a skin where the waveform can be 'hidden' like the excellent 700's by Fruit, now demo for him, when he asks what the laptop is for just say "O that thing, that's my record case which holds tens of thousands of tracks, I also have hundreds of digitial effects and a built in sampler" - side note, if you can tell the difference between my well encoded mp3's and there original CD's you must be God, because the human hear can hear no distinction in the right settings.

The narrow minded people see this thing as a war, when dealing with them it's best to beat them at their own game as VDJ with TC has the potential to do so, but what really matters when mixing on any tool is YOU, what YOU can do (with it).

Bagpuss - better through technology.

 

Posted Thu 12 Jan 06 @ 5:27 pm
listen2PRO InfinityMember since 2005
i would agree that guy has a "dj issue" with pc's. I see more pc's being used now then ever, it's just smater, less gear to carry and more music you have acess to.. Besides sound, i dont think there is one single thing vdj can't do that a cd can, but i can think of tons of things that a cd can't. And i wouldn't say that non-pc dj'ing is more skills, i'd call it more work, which is why vdj is so nice letting you concentrate on what matters most ....the mix
 

Posted Thu 12 Jan 06 @ 5:34 pm
This is so great! Thanks a lot DJs!
 

Posted Thu 12 Jan 06 @ 5:43 pm
djbambiPRO InfinityMember since 2003
I'll re-quote Richie Hawtin:

"DJing is more about performance now, it’s verging on a live show, and part of the progression towards that is moving further and further away from turntable technology and the idea of mechanically mixing two records together. We used to spend so much effort on getting records to stay in time with each other. But once you stop having to worry about that, you can really start thinking about what sounds work together, and you can get deeper into the structure of the mix.

Vinyl fundamentalists might regard this as heresy. The progressive people are thinking, if computer technologies automate one task, what can I now do better or what new task can I focus my attention on? What can I do now with the technology and how can I push in a new direction to further the experimentation and heighten the experience?"

( see http://www.mute.com/releases/viewRelease.jsp?id=2509760 )
 

Posted Thu 12 Jan 06 @ 5:53 pm
bagpussPRO InfinityMember since 2003
A quote from a semi-famous DJ that uses Abletion/CDJ1000's:
"The best buzz for a pilote is flying that plan manually, doing loop da loops, and feeling that power, but just think, when auto pilots on, you can have a lot more fun in the cockpit".

Bagpuss.
 

Posted Thu 12 Jan 06 @ 6:24 pm
there are a lot of haters out there...

the evolution of hate

stage 1--moblie dj--early 80's
first it was the bands that hated us!!!
we took all their jobs...sweet 16's, proms, bar/bat mitzvahs, weddings, corporate gigs
they hated us!!!!
why? because we played music the way it was suppose to be played....
dj's supposedly had no talent....we just put on a disc and played the song
we couldn't sing, we had no musical background, couldn't play an instrument etc.
in their opinion, no practice required
they hated us!!!!

stage 2--cd revolution--early 90's
cd's came out and with it computer software
not only did bands still hate us, but so called real dj's -- who played vinyl--too
i use to play clubs, i switched to cd's---i could trim my songs, which made my life so much easier
i didn't have to cue songs anymore
disco songs could start at the beat, etc.
all my vinyl friends thought i sold out---to a point i did
but it made my life much easier and i loved it
no more skipping records---less equip to pack
easier to find songs
i became much more organized and i couldn't have been any more happier
i couldn't scratch records but i didn't do it that much anyway
especially at mobile gigs

stage 3--millineum
computer dj's--the movement, progress, technology...
now bands still hate us, dj's who play vinvly hate us and cd dj's hate us
we can remix records with programs that require skill and innovation
we can make seamless mixes like the very best dj's on radio and incorporate it into our shows
it is crazy what we can do with dj software and incredibly fun
i feel fortunate i found vdj it has made my life easier and my mobile parties better
that is the bottom line

****in my opinion, a real dj has to be able to beatmatch--it donesn't matter what platform, vinyl, cd or computer
get a pair of usb headphones....psp headphones $19
practice mixing beats in vdj
then you are a real dj
as long as you can beatmatch, no one can ever say you are not a real dj

my 2 cents















 

Posted Thu 12 Jan 06 @ 6:24 pm
mp3jrickPRO InfinityHonorary MemberMember since 2003
It's like a marksman that now uses a lazer scope, you can't miss.
 

Posted Thu 12 Jan 06 @ 6:30 pm
djbambiPRO InfinityMember since 2003
"as long as you can beatmatch, no one can ever say you are not a real dj"

ooh man, last time I said something similar here some people got pretty upset :)
 

Posted Thu 12 Jan 06 @ 6:30 pm
djaditya - I know you look up to your DJ friend and all, but I have to say this guy is an idiot. If computer DJ was for hobbyist, then why would EVERY major DJ in the world be using a computer in their sets now. Seriously, when it comes to top name DJs, especially travelling ones, they ALL use Laptops now. I would say your friend is out of touch with reality. A list of top DJs using laptops I stole from another forum:

?UESTLOVE > The Roots drummer and DJ
A-SIDES > D&B Producer / DJ
A-TRAK > DMC, ITF and Vestax Champ
AFRIKA BAMBAATAA > One of the Founders of Hip Hop
DAMON WILD > Rave Generator!
DAVE TARRIDA > DJ, Producer, and owner of Sativae Records
DISCO D > From Ghettotech to Hip-Hop
DJ AM > The US Entertainment Industry's Premier DJ
DJ KAI > Rising star of the New York house scene
DJ RIZ > One half of Crooklyn Clan
DJ SPINBAD > Technical master
DJ SPINNA > Producer / DJ / Remixer
DJ WOODY > 2X World Champ
DJCXL > 2003 NZ DMC Champion
JAZZY JEFF > The Magnificent
JEFF MILLIGAN > Minimal Techno Producer
JOHN TEJADA > Prolific Techno / House Producer
KLUTE > Drum & Bass producer extraordinaire
MARK DE CLIVE-LOWE > Broken-Beat Producer
PEANUT BUTTER WOLF > Owner of Stones Throw Records
PRINCE PAUL > Legendary Hip Hop Producer
TRESOR CLUB > Legendary German Techno Club

Add to that Deep Dish, Tiesto, Carl Cox and many others. No question about it more internationally known DJs use laptops than don't. Look at the list here:

http://www.thedjlist.com/

These are the best DJs in the world. I know for certain that most of the names in the top 10 are DJs using laptops. These are guys that pull $10,000 - $100,000 a night to DJ. What does your friend have to say about that?
 

Posted Thu 12 Jan 06 @ 6:49 pm
Chrystal Methode also uses computers and software to make their jobs much easier and instead of using an old 80s keyboard they've got a midi controller and software that does exactly what the keyboard does and more.

There is just so much you can do with vinyl and CD decks. now incorporate what you can do with those and include a sampler. You can now sample, loop, and create some cool effects. Add a synthesizer, you can now add synths to your tracks and make them sound original and creative in your mixes.

You can keep buying equipment that will cost your thousands of dollars and need 6 hands to operate them all or you can use a software which you can controll them all with the click of a mouse.

I've been a vinyl DJ for 10 years now. I remember the big war with CDs, I respect DJs that use CDs although I have never got the hang of it although give me some decks anyday and I'll rock the crowd since its native to me. Now I've got my records on PC (and yes I save 400-500lbs at each gig) No more back pains due to record crates, cheaper air fare due to having less weight, I have the ability to sample and have my effects with a laptop.

To me that's one hell of a time saver, not only am I able to have my setup up and running within 20 minutes although its much less cables to unpack and less stuff to put away at the end of the show which lets me take off much quicker then I was able to do with vinyl or CD decks.

Best Regards

DJ White Devil
 

Posted Thu 12 Jan 06 @ 7:25 pm
PionaraPRO InfinityMember since 2004
Quite the argument. I think at the end of the day it doesn't matter what you use to dj with, it matters how you dj and how you read and move a crowd.

Some good points have been raised, but if you think about it, it really IS just the electronic revolution of music that is progressing us. Nothing else.

It's a shame that this guy thinks that VDJ isn't the way to go forward. Like Aditya said, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but let's face it, if you walked into a club and there was this guy spinning excellent tracks on a pc, TCV/TCCD or just plain TT's, would you know the difference without getting up there and actually checking it out???? Nah man, you probably wouldn't.

It'll be interesting to see what happens to this guy's opinion when he realises the benefits and stops thinking about his image as a 'cd' dj.

I work for a guy who is absolutely stunned every time he comes to a gig when he sees the sheer amount of songs I have. He carries minidiscs and cd's with him. Each to their own, I say, but as least my tracks don't skip and jump all over the place.

And I've got the digital evolution and that "shit" VDJ to thank for that!!!

Cheers...and keep spinnin'...:o)

P
 

Posted Thu 12 Jan 06 @ 8:02 pm
This reminds me of a conversation I had with a vinyl DJ while I was at the Guitar Center looking at some mixers...

I told him I used software to mix, and he immediatly assumed I used SSL, and when I told him I used VDJ and how it can beatmatch and loop and all sorts of other wonderful things, he said "Automatic beatmatching??? That takes the art out of DJ-ing!" to which I replied "The art of DJ-ing is filling the floor up with people, choosing the right music and mixing it in cool ways." That shut him up. The truth is that beatmixing is a skill of the DJ, not an art, and since vinyl and cd dj's had to practice so hard to learn how (because it's a pain in the rear) they get pissed that a computer program can do it so easily.

They equate beatmixing with good DJ-ing, and that is a mistake. You can be a great beatmixer and still not fill the floor up!
 

Posted Thu 12 Jan 06 @ 8:13 pm
exactly! ;) AMEN.....

very well said ;)
 

Posted Fri 13 Jan 06 @ 1:05 am
This one is short and sweet...In my opinion, a good dj has a good set of core skills that he is able to use as he adopts the new technology of the industry changes. Failure to adopt the new technology will eventually cause the premature end of a career. This holds true for any business. Over the past 26 years, I have switched from vinyl to cd/dvd to computers. During each change in technology, I have found new ways to remix the music and also found certain things were easier to perform. Not to mention the weight savings in having to haul around all of the music.
 

Posted Fri 13 Jan 06 @ 2:29 am
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