Matty1000
two questions :
if the Key diff is 1 how do I know if its 1 up or 1 down ? should it be -1 when it is lower?
how does VDJ handle when there is a key shift, you know in certain musical genres some songs change key toward the end of the song, they shift up by one semitone (or a full tone) im not sure which it is. (think Livin on a prayer by bon jovi )
this often catches me out when im cuing up a song which has a key diff of zero. im not sure what exactly can be done to accomodate for it. I think it is a blind spot for Virtual DJ at the moment, since it is just going by the original key of the song, so i lose the ability to match the key on that transition. perhaps there is already some way to do it in VDJ but i just dont know what it is
if the Key diff is 1 how do I know if its 1 up or 1 down ? should it be -1 when it is lower?
how does VDJ handle when there is a key shift, you know in certain musical genres some songs change key toward the end of the song, they shift up by one semitone (or a full tone) im not sure which it is. (think Livin on a prayer by bon jovi )
this often catches me out when im cuing up a song which has a key diff of zero. im not sure what exactly can be done to accomodate for it. I think it is a blind spot for Virtual DJ at the moment, since it is just going by the original key of the song, so i lose the ability to match the key on that transition. perhaps there is already some way to do it in VDJ but i just dont know what it is
Posted Thu 04 Jul 24 @ 10:09 am
PhantomDeejay
It doesn't really matter.
I mean from a DJ perspective, it doesn't matter if the key is higher or lower.
Key difference is NOT the distance, in semitones, between the tracks.
Key difference is how much you need to change one track's key for the two tracks to become compatible.
Key difference 0 means that the tracks are compatible.
Key difference 1 means that the tracks WILL become compatible if you change one of the tracks by one (1) semitone up or down.
Key difference 2 means that the tracks WILL become compatible if you change one of the tracks by two (2) semitones up or down.
Notice, I didn't say the tracks will have the same key. I said the tracks will become compatible.
So, one track being 7A and the other being 8A have key difference of 0
One track being 7A and the other being 2A have key difference of 1 because they are not compatible, but if you lower the 2A track by one (1) semitone (or you raise the 7A track) they become compatible (actually they become the same key)
Same applies for 7A and 12A combination.
One track being 7A and the other being 3A also have key difference of 1.
That's because if you lower the 3A track by one (1) semitone, it becomes 8A, and therefore it IS compatible with 7A (but not the same key)
Is it more clear now what key difference in VirtualDJ is ?
PS: At the moment, all DJ software treat songs as having the same root key throughout their entire duration. Of course a lot of times that's not true.
That's why key is an aid to help you mix tracks (same as BPM) but you should not completely rely on it (as you can't rely on BPM for tracks with varied BPM).
Ultimately use your ears.. If the blending of the songs sounds pleasant to you, you're good to go, no matter what the "key" says. If the blending sounds weird (keys clash) then don't mix these tracks together, even if they are "the same key"
PS: Also while it was common in the 80's to raise the vocals at the last verse, most of the time the track itself would not change key. The track would stay on the same key, but the signer would switch to other harmonics (usually by following the rule of fifths)
PPS: Yes, it was common to change keys in the middle of the song in the 80's. What was not common, was to change key during the higher vocals pitch on the last verse (if that makes sense on how I'm describing it). I mean the trick to raise the vocals was common, but seldomly it would mean a track key change. But key changes were all over the place. Just not on that part of the songs :P
I mean from a DJ perspective, it doesn't matter if the key is higher or lower.
Key difference is NOT the distance, in semitones, between the tracks.
Key difference is how much you need to change one track's key for the two tracks to become compatible.
Key difference 0 means that the tracks are compatible.
Key difference 1 means that the tracks WILL become compatible if you change one of the tracks by one (1) semitone up or down.
Key difference 2 means that the tracks WILL become compatible if you change one of the tracks by two (2) semitones up or down.
Notice, I didn't say the tracks will have the same key. I said the tracks will become compatible.
So, one track being 7A and the other being 8A have key difference of 0
One track being 7A and the other being 2A have key difference of 1 because they are not compatible, but if you lower the 2A track by one (1) semitone (or you raise the 7A track) they become compatible (actually they become the same key)
Same applies for 7A and 12A combination.
One track being 7A and the other being 3A also have key difference of 1.
That's because if you lower the 3A track by one (1) semitone, it becomes 8A, and therefore it IS compatible with 7A (but not the same key)
Is it more clear now what key difference in VirtualDJ is ?
PS: At the moment, all DJ software treat songs as having the same root key throughout their entire duration. Of course a lot of times that's not true.
That's why key is an aid to help you mix tracks (same as BPM) but you should not completely rely on it (as you can't rely on BPM for tracks with varied BPM).
Ultimately use your ears.. If the blending of the songs sounds pleasant to you, you're good to go, no matter what the "key" says. If the blending sounds weird (keys clash) then don't mix these tracks together, even if they are "the same key"
PS: Also while it was common in the 80's to raise the vocals at the last verse, most of the time the track itself would not change key. The track would stay on the same key, but the signer would switch to other harmonics (usually by following the rule of fifths)
PPS: Yes, it was common to change keys in the middle of the song in the 80's. What was not common, was to change key during the higher vocals pitch on the last verse (if that makes sense on how I'm describing it). I mean the trick to raise the vocals was common, but seldomly it would mean a track key change. But key changes were all over the place. Just not on that part of the songs :P
Posted Thu 04 Jul 24 @ 10:42 am
Matty1000
PhantomDeejay wrote :
It doesn't really matter.
I mean from a DJ perspective, it doesn't matter if the key is higher or lower.
Key difference is NOT the distance, in semitones, between the tracks.
Key difference is how much you need to change one track's key for the two tracks to become compatible.
Key difference 0 means that the tracks are compatible.
Key difference 1 means that the tracks WILL become compatible if you change one of the tracks by one (1) semitone up or down.
Key difference 2 means that the tracks WILL become compatible if you change one of the tracks by two (2) semitones up or down.
Notice, I didn't say the tracks will have the same key. I said the tracks will become compatible.
So, one track being 7A and the other being 8A have key difference of 0
One track being 7A and the other being 2A have key difference of 1 because they are not compatible, but if you lower the 2A track by one (1) semitone (or you raise the 7A track) they become compatible (actually they become the same key)
Same applies for 7A and 12A combination.
One track being 7A and the other being 3A also have key difference of 1.
That's because if you lower the 3A track by one (1) semitone, it becomes 8A, and therefore it IS compatible with 7A (but not the same key)
Is it more clear now what key difference in VirtualDJ is ?
PS: At the moment, all DJ software treat songs as having the same root key throughout their entire duration. Of course a lot of times that's not true.
That's why key is an aid to help you mix tracks (same as BPM) but you should not completely rely on it (as you can't rely on BPM for tracks with varied BPM).
Ultimately use your ears.. If the blending of the songs sounds pleasant to you, you're good to go, no matter what the "key" says. If the blending sounds weird (keys clash) then don't mix these tracks together, even if they are "the same key"
PS: Also while it was common in the 80's to raise the vocals at the last verse, most of the time the track itself would not change key. The track would stay on the same key, but the signer would switch to other harmonics (usually by following the rule of fifths)
PPS: Yes, it was common to change keys in the middle of the song in the 80's. What was not common, was to change key during the higher vocals pitch on the last verse (if that makes sense on how I'm describing it). I mean the trick to raise the vocals was common, but seldomly it would mean a track key change. But key changes were all over the place. Just not on that part of the songs :P
I mean from a DJ perspective, it doesn't matter if the key is higher or lower.
Key difference is NOT the distance, in semitones, between the tracks.
Key difference is how much you need to change one track's key for the two tracks to become compatible.
Key difference 0 means that the tracks are compatible.
Key difference 1 means that the tracks WILL become compatible if you change one of the tracks by one (1) semitone up or down.
Key difference 2 means that the tracks WILL become compatible if you change one of the tracks by two (2) semitones up or down.
Notice, I didn't say the tracks will have the same key. I said the tracks will become compatible.
So, one track being 7A and the other being 8A have key difference of 0
One track being 7A and the other being 2A have key difference of 1 because they are not compatible, but if you lower the 2A track by one (1) semitone (or you raise the 7A track) they become compatible (actually they become the same key)
Same applies for 7A and 12A combination.
One track being 7A and the other being 3A also have key difference of 1.
That's because if you lower the 3A track by one (1) semitone, it becomes 8A, and therefore it IS compatible with 7A (but not the same key)
Is it more clear now what key difference in VirtualDJ is ?
PS: At the moment, all DJ software treat songs as having the same root key throughout their entire duration. Of course a lot of times that's not true.
That's why key is an aid to help you mix tracks (same as BPM) but you should not completely rely on it (as you can't rely on BPM for tracks with varied BPM).
Ultimately use your ears.. If the blending of the songs sounds pleasant to you, you're good to go, no matter what the "key" says. If the blending sounds weird (keys clash) then don't mix these tracks together, even if they are "the same key"
PS: Also while it was common in the 80's to raise the vocals at the last verse, most of the time the track itself would not change key. The track would stay on the same key, but the signer would switch to other harmonics (usually by following the rule of fifths)
PPS: Yes, it was common to change keys in the middle of the song in the 80's. What was not common, was to change key during the higher vocals pitch on the last verse (if that makes sense on how I'm describing it). I mean the trick to raise the vocals was common, but seldomly it would mean a track key change. But key changes were all over the place. Just not on that part of the songs :P
thankyou for your detailed response, You are right it was more common in the 80s, however, we do still play 80s music at certain events. and I noticed that It is also common in brazilian music, such as sertanejo which I play at times., anyways ,it happens enough for it to catch me out a few times.
Im puzzled at one thing you said, you said it doesnt really matter whether it is up or down, but the examples you gave (correct me if im wrong) only one song needs to shift up and the other down. so, if the song that needed to be shifted up by 1 , were shifted down by 1 instead, this wouldnt work , correct? so there is a right and a wrong direction to go. so this impies that it does matter. doesnt it?
and yes, using ones ears is the best advice, however it is good to have the technology to help. and since there's hardly anything virtual dj cannot do, it is interesting to discuss it to see if a solution can be thought of
Posted Thu 04 Jul 24 @ 11:16 am
groovindj
@phantomdeejay
IMO the choice of the phrase "key difference" is not ideal, as when people read that there's a difference of zero, their obvious conclusion is that there is no difference - the key is the same.
It would be better described as "key shift" from your description. Key shift 0 means no shift required.
IMO the choice of the phrase "key difference" is not ideal, as when people read that there's a difference of zero, their obvious conclusion is that there is no difference - the key is the same.
It would be better described as "key shift" from your description. Key shift 0 means no shift required.
Posted Thu 04 Jul 24 @ 11:22 am