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Forum: VirtualDJ Technical Support

Topic: Automix - Deck 2 to Deck 1 is out of sync
v2023 b7388

I've created a video that shows this issue, which I've uploaded to my google drive. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ZW8eiPIdVkCozJUlGvowFiYnB3gSsKZm/view?usp=share_link

And here is the track I used, if you want to test it out for yourself. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1EfEHBJU1726qpYUKHLvRCBH4F2c1rclb/view?usp=share_link

I'll make sure to leave these files on my google drive for a year or so.

Firstly, try to ignore the flickering starting recording box. It seems like I always have a flicker effect in VirtualDJ which occurs when I load it up, but it goes away when I mouse over the items in the left sidebar, which I have hidden in the video. Sure, it may be a tad annoying, but it isn't anything I care about.

So, I created the track with just a kick and snare, and it is about a minute long. The bpm is exactly 128 which I show. I found a trick to zoom the waveform closer in the bpm editor by making the window small, zooming, and then making the window wide again. I positioned the first beat at exactly the peak and you can see that it is at the exact same spot near the end of the track. I also did a manual stem 2.0 for the file.

Then I show the POI editor where I set up an Automix Tempo Start at the beginning and an Automix Tempo End near the end.

Then I start playing the auto mix. When is it automixing from deck 1 to deck 2, everything sounds good, the waveforms it shows are in sync with each other. When it automixes from deck 2 to deck 1 however, you can visually see and you can also hear that the mix is not perfectly in sync.

I let it play for 3 whole automixes, and you can see that everytime it does deck 1 to 2 it is fine, and everytime it does deck 2 to 1 it isn't. The deck I'm using is just the performance in compact mode, which I also show in the video. And I brought up the tag editor as well while the video was playing so you can see that these two tracks that are being mixed are the same track.

My computer is quite powerful. It is custom built within the last year using an amd cpu and video card.

Does this issue occur for others?
Does it occur because when I close the connect box, and have nothing connected?
Could it be the performance deck?
Or perhaps because I haven't purchased a licence yet?

If anyone has any ideas of things I can try, or knows a solution, it would be greatly appreciated. If any other details about config settings or computer specs would be helpful, please let me know and I'll provide that.
 

Posted Sat 11 Feb 23 @ 4:40 pm
So I did some more investigating and I believe I found the solution, but I want to explain what I did to find it.

Firstly I tried turning on 4 decks. And then automixing from deck 3 to 4 and 4 to 3 worked without any issues. I had no idea how I would change the Visualizations at the top so I could see deck 3 and 4, so I looked at what was different between these decks, and the only thing I could see that was different, was the "Lock" icon.

So I turned that on for desk 1 and 2 and tried them again. They are now mixing in sync in both directions. Why would those not being on, which you can see they weren't in the video, only affect one side? Seems kind of odd.

But I guess no one needs to look into this since I figured out how to resolve my own issue.

 

Posted Mon 13 Feb 23 @ 2:53 pm
I guess this isn't a solution, it locks the tempo. Not really a fix.
 

Posted Mon 13 Feb 23 @ 3:12 pm
I'd already figured out that I could click the sync button while deck 2 is mixing to deck 1, and that would solve the issue. So I found that there is an action called "sync". Adding that to the track in the area where it is mixing helps fix this issue.

So I'm going through the 378 songs I have in my 8 hour automix and doing that. Time consuming, but at least it helps resolve this issue.

I still have no idea why this issue is occuring though, or if others can replicate it.
 

Posted Tue 14 Feb 23 @ 3:44 pm
AdionPRO InfinityCTOMember since 2006
Did you try with automixDualDeck off?
 

Posted Tue 14 Feb 23 @ 4:41 pm
I also see this problem with dualdeck on. If dual deck off, sync is ok.
 

Posted Wed 15 Feb 23 @ 1:35 am
It is good to see that someone else can replicate this issue. Using a single deck is interesting. I had no idea that was possible. And I can confirm that it solves the sync issue. Thanks for the responses.

The reason why I want to mix the same song into itself, is to verify that the bpm for that song is perfect. I can definitely do that with a single deck, and adjust the bpm number and pois if they are not right.

Using the single deck for the entire mix however seems to have some side effects. None of my actions work anymore, like 'match_key "E"', 'level 90%', ' 'stem "Vocal" 0%', or set_gain -1.

I know I can deal with the gain using the tag editor. And I need to do a volume pass anyways, so it doesn't matter to me if I do that in the tags or using actions. The odd song has too much gain, which makes them a bit noisy with distortion.

The other actions I can deal with by recording the songs while playing them. It means I need to do more work setting the new song up exactly as I had the old one, but that can be done. I only have 6 songs (containing no lyrics) that I change key on. The other effects, well, I stopped counting when I hit 35, so there are some, but most don't have anything.

Since I had already added a sync in the mix in and mix out for each song, always on the quieter side, I'm going to listen to what I recorded overnight and see if it is good enough for my liking or not. I know there are some songs I will have to touch up the bpm and/or first beat to get them to mix perfectly, but I can deal with that, always testing them by mixing from deck 1 to 2, which I know stays in sync.

If the sync action doesn't help enough, then I'll do the extra work and record the songs with their effects. Since I have so many songs in my mix, the longest one may play for 2 minutes, so I only need to record short parts of each song. One song actually mixes in, and then mixes out right away.

Thanks again for the responses. That will help me get a really smooth sounding mix.
 

Posted Wed 15 Feb 23 @ 3:32 pm
This issue still occurs in v2023 b7445 which just came out.
 

Posted Wed 15 Feb 23 @ 7:48 pm
Looks like I'm going to be doing the extra work. I'm not happy with the mixing from Deck 2 to 1. Hopefully at some point they fix this.

3 sync actions, 1 near the beginning, 1 8 beats into the mix and 1 on the mix out side, 8 beats before the end, are not enough to keep it in sync. It seems to drift a bit, and there's no way I'm putting a sync action every beat. I have a feeling that wouldn't even work.
 

Posted Thu 16 Feb 23 @ 2:05 am
Hello Pendulumdeams,

First I want to say... That you need to focus on your gain and PFL Levels (Volume)

I noticed in your video that you are sending your PFL level into CLIPPING (Distortion) and your
MASTER OUT VOLUME is CLIPPING when you CROSSFADE the 2 tracks.

I reviewed your track... although you managed to fix your problem, I noticed something els within your track.

The "KEY" across the entire track is NOT THE SAME... I made a video that I want you to look at
and listen to it.

I played with it... Mixed It... Ect. You will see and hear what I am talking about.


I also made another video to demonstrate what I mean by focusing on your GAIN and PFL as well
as the Volume.

Keep your eyes on my VU METERS (PFL + MASTER) Notice at the end when I use sound FX, how the
VOLUME LEVELS increased; you can even hear it. I have brought this under the developer of VIRTUAL DJ
attention, I am waiting for a response though.



Kind Regards,
Allan Hattingh (Virtual DJ)

Your Track:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1M7ToF5CigtDfvfkrdcTwKDcWVBN4LAUu/view?usp=share_link


Gain + Volume:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1W5l8LQ7oLE5qQ_oZ-zL72EMwUvxlNsHa/view?usp=share_link


PLEASE LET ME KNOW VIA E-MAIL WHEN YOU LOOKED AT THE 2 VIDEOS... SO THAT I CAN REMOVE
THEM FROM MY GOOGLE DRIVE.

E-Mail: xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Thank You.

Moderation :

Personal email not allowed


 

Posted Thu 16 Feb 23 @ 9:40 am
Firstly I must say, since I haven't. I am not a DJ. I'm actually a programmer. So for me the automix is like me programming the mix. I also have no idea how someone could DJ with a single mouse button. So for all those that can, you have a skill I do not, and probably never will.

DJ Allan1600: I'm done looking at the videos, but your personal email got xxx'd out, so hopefully you see this post. I see what you are talking about with the key. So that means the tracker program (Med Soundstudio) I used to generate that track, didn't do a great job of creating it. As for the volume though, I wasn't concerned about it with this track, because I used it in place of the metronome and wanted it loud. I found it hard to use the metronome for some songs. A kick and snare made it easier when the song didn't have an precussion, and only a deep kick. I would adjust the volume on that deck to one that matched the song while figuring out the bpm. So I wasn't always blasting it at full volume unless the song was loud in a spot.

From that 128 BPM track, I took the first beat and copied it over and over in audacity, making it exactly the same length between beats, and the same length overall, I also uploaded it to my google drive. If I put that into VirtualDJ, In the beats view, it looks like each beat is the same, compared to the original version.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1XjiiEWNeFTZbB72I6H8zPxOV4ZbWg4se/view?usp=share_link

That track was made for the sole purpose of figuring out the bpm for all my songs, so the key didn't really matter. But it is interesting to know that Med Soundstudio didn't have an exact waveform each time it played the instrument. It could be related to the quality level limitations it had for instruments. I hadn't used it for anything lately, until this, because I knew it could make a song that was a perfect bpm.

The reason I was adjusting the bpm myself is because I don't trust VirtualDJ to get it perfect. I've created a video showing this. In it I move in this newly created track I made, you can see it figuring out the bpm. Then I load up the editor, zoom as much as I can and line up to an easy point, take a screenshot, move to the end of the track, and you can see it isn't the same. But then I edit the bpm to exactly 128, and you can see that it now matches the image I took. I uploaded that video to my google drive. And again I'll leave these files on there for a year or so.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1EmlTv3yUNldI9A9POQrETs2qINu6SHFN/view?usp=share_link

The bpm tracks I recorded with Med Soundstudio before creating the short one that I uploaded to my google drive, were actually 9 minutes long. And I did 30 of various bpms. Looking at a track that long, you can easily tell that the bmp was exactly 128 (or whatever each track was), and not off a bit. When I moved all of those tracks into VirtualDJ, it detected some of them as 127.99 something and some as 128.00 something. It got some right, but not all of them. I manually adjusted them like I just did in the video, all of the different tempos with the beat on that peak. And then used that as my guide, selecting the closest tempo track to the song to figure out the bpm for that track.

I got the order of the 378 songs figured out, and their volumes are close enough for now, to figure out what mixed well together.

Some songs even with the kick and snare were still difficult to get perfect, so after I record the songs that have stem or key changes and replace the ones in the mix with their newly recorded version, then I'll listen to everything, always going from deck 1 to 2, so I can see both waveforms. and adjust any that need it. After that it is a volume pass and switch to a single deck to record the mix.

I'll probably keep the original mix, and if a new song comes out that I love that can replace a song that I was mainly using as a bridge between key or tempo changes, I'll record a new version with it. That's the plan, just have something that is exactly 8 hours in length, that I can listen to while working.
 

Posted Fri 17 Feb 23 @ 2:17 am
Hello Pendulumdreams,

Thank you for replying,


I forgot that no personal information can be posted on Virtual DJ.



I like what you said about, using a mouse to mix. I wouldn't mind to be one of those skilled people
but I am not one of them... LOL!

No I am using a entry level controller to do my mixing and editing though (Numark Mixtrack Platinum)
it is the only controller or brand that can play 24 bit audio I think. I didn't really check which controller's
can play 24 bit audio.

Any way... I understand what you are doing and in my eyes I don't see anything wrong with it.

Weather your a "BEDROOM DJ" or a PRO it does not matter, every DJ has his or her way to be perfect!

DON'T LET OTHER PEOPLE TELL YOU OTHERWISE!

Metronomes - I also don't use them!

I teached myself to use the track's BPM and KEY to do my mixes... sins I started my own DJ service
mid 2022... at my very first gig that was a 21st Birthday Party I got a rating of 98% out of 100.
From there on I done a couple of weddings, 60's Birthday Party's etc. and I'm getting 100% ratings
all the way (Not Bragging) YOU have your own way, so use it... Use your talent and be a awesome DJ.

Yes I know you said that you are a programer... So be a DJ in your own space and time!


Do what I am trying to do... TAKE YOUR DREAM AND MAKE IT A REALITY!

I guarantee you, you will NOT BE DISAPPOINTED... It is hard work and a lot of research and plenty of
sleepless nights... But it makes you... YOU!

Don't try to fit in... GOD made you to STAND OUT!


P.S.

I never done a single DJ course... till to this day... I am a self educated DJ... I teach myself in real time.
I make mistakes... dumb mistakes... and I learn from them. I am not perfect... but I am a DJ in my own
mind... I WILL be in REALITY TOO!


Pendulumdreams,

You had a problem... You asked for help... No One responded... You new what was the problem...
You done fault finding... You found it... You fixed it...

Don't let simple things stand in your way... Don't let life be an obstruction... BE YOURSELF!


If you are a "OVERTHINKER LIKE ME"........... GOD WILL BE AT YOUR SIDE TO GUIDE YOU!








Kind Regards,
Allan Hattingh (Virtual DJ)



 

Posted Fri 17 Feb 23 @ 8:40 am
I am happy as a programmer. I don't want to figure out how to DJ live. The reason why I started using it, was because of the automix feature. I want a mix that I can throw on at the start of the work day, and when it is finished, the day is over. That way I can concentrate on programming, and not have to worry about that which helps me think, music, from stopping.

That doesn't mean I wouldn't be interested in buying VirtualDJ, but I would never use it to actually DJ, maybe just automix songs one after another with no silence. But, I'd prefer this issue to be resolved before I do.
 

Posted Fri 17 Feb 23 @ 8:01 pm
locoDogPRO InfinityModeratorMember since 2013
looking at it as a programmer problem, I wouldn't use automix,
automix is C#, generally it's easier but some of the levers are removed from you.
it will work fine most of the time but when it doesn't work you'll hate it

The assembly of automixing is action poi, you instruct everything the only caveat is only 1 action poi from a deck at a time [several decks can be running actions but a single deck can't run 2 actions at once]
 

Posted Sat 18 Feb 23 @ 6:52 am
Okei... let me see what I can do for you!


I am going to make a video (Very Long Video) that will show how I set up automix
to do the mixing for me... DOWNLOAD THIS VIDEO & SAVE IT.


PAY CLOSE ATTENTION!!!


My screen recorder does not record the sub menu... sorry about that

In my AUTOMIX I have the following active....

1. Key
2. Track Length (Oprinal)
3. BPM
4. BPM DIFFERENCE

First click on BPM and then on KEY (IN THIS SPECIFIC ORDER) this will arrange all your tracks in the playlist
to BEAT MATCH AND KEY MATCH.

In the setting menu... type in the search box... AUTOMIX

My settings is as follow...

FADE LENGTH - 30.50 seconds
AUTOMIX MODE - Force Fade
AUTOMIX SKIP LENGTH - 16 Beats
AUTOMIX DUAL DECK - ON (Just for the looks) it really does not have an effect though
AUTOMIX DOUBLE CLICK - Play Next
AUTOMIX BEAT MATCH ON FADE - ON

That is my settingh... When you are busy and concentrating, you will not notice the mixing.
It will be flawless!

ENJOY!!!

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1oGAubKa-Axe4smVbPz1odTSJdRQd8ZHD/view?usp=sharing

Again... Please let me know, so that I can remove the video from my GOOGLE DRIVE





Kind Regards,
Allan Hattingh (Virtual DJ)


 

Posted Sat 18 Feb 23 @ 7:48 am
Thanks everyone for all your responses. There was some good knowledge in them. And the workaround with a single deck will allow me to finish my mix whether this issue gets fixed or not. I don't think I need anything else.

I've already recorded more than half the songs that I need with key, level, or stem changes, so I can automix on a single deck. I'm actually working on that while typing this. I think the only thing I need now, is time.
 

Posted Sat 18 Feb 23 @ 9:40 am
An update regarding actions when using a single deck, in case anyone else has to deal with this issue. Actions work once the song has finished mixing in, and they work while the song is mixing out. It is only actions while a song is mixing in which do not work.
 

Posted Thu 23 Feb 23 @ 6:54 pm
locoDogPRO InfinityModeratorMember since 2013
A fix for your dual deck issue has gone to early access if you wish to test.
just search for earlyAccess in settings, give vdj a restart and give it a moment to update.
 

Posted Thu 23 Feb 23 @ 7:12 pm
I just gave it a try with my 90, 100, 110, 120, 130, and 140 BPM files, each three times in a row before going onto the next tempo, and then going through them all in reverse.

As far as I can tell, everthing is perfect. I'll be switching back to duel deck, as I find it easier to verify that I've got the bpm and first beat perfect when I can visually see both tracks while it is mixing.

Thanks for the fix!
 

Posted Sat 25 Feb 23 @ 9:32 am