VDJ Ron
So we can use bought cd+g, mp3+g and mp4.
The thing is that a lot of downloadable tracks have been removed from the online stores.
It may now be impossible to buy mp4 and mp3+g for many tracks by Madonna, Adele, Van Morrison plus many more artists.
What is going on?
Those who are not bothered about being legal are ok, the rest of us have to do without or use old cd's.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/bad-news-karaoke-fans-you-11382900
I might ban Madonna and Adele..but Van Morrison.
i SUPPOSE IF WE BAN THEIR MUSIC THEY WILL SOON CHANGE THEIR MINDS.
The thing is that a lot of downloadable tracks have been removed from the online stores.
It may now be impossible to buy mp4 and mp3+g for many tracks by Madonna, Adele, Van Morrison plus many more artists.
What is going on?
Those who are not bothered about being legal are ok, the rest of us have to do without or use old cd's.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/bad-news-karaoke-fans-you-11382900
I might ban Madonna and Adele..but Van Morrison.
i SUPPOSE IF WE BAN THEIR MUSIC THEY WILL SOON CHANGE THEIR MINDS.
Posted Sat 09 Mar 19 @ 2:13 am
VDJ Ron
What is the practical UK legal position of ripping my legally owned cd+g's?
I know were not supposed to do it..but things are becoming difficult.
I know were not supposed to do it..but things are becoming difficult.
Posted Sat 09 Mar 19 @ 2:26 am
groovindj
Probably a ProDub license.
https://www.prsformusic.com/help/help-with-licences/dj-mixes-produb
https://www.prsformusic.com/help/help-with-licences/dj-mixes-produb
Posted Sat 09 Mar 19 @ 8:06 am
VDJ Ron
They do seem to have something specifically related to copying legal karaoke music to a laptop. I have not found the details as yet ?
Most karaoke jockeys don't bother about being legal. One I know brazenly offers every song in the world including those in different languages. He puts it up on all his screens..around half a dozen. There is no way that can be legal.
I don't suppose I need worry about PRS with respect to my normal music which is now legally downloaded video. Also I do have a lot of legal karaoke mp4's which also should not need a licence.
I may have a booking in September at one of the most high profile places in our country and need to provide a comprehensive music package. A limited legal package is easy.
It is all very worrying.
Most karaoke jockeys don't bother about being legal. One I know brazenly offers every song in the world including those in different languages. He puts it up on all his screens..around half a dozen. There is no way that can be legal.
I don't suppose I need worry about PRS with respect to my normal music which is now legally downloaded video. Also I do have a lot of legal karaoke mp4's which also should not need a licence.
I may have a booking in September at one of the most high profile places in our country and need to provide a comprehensive music package. A limited legal package is easy.
It is all very worrying.
Posted Sat 09 Mar 19 @ 9:42 am
kradcliffe
But as I stated in a previous post this week who actually monitors this, specifically in the UK?
Its not the job of the police or local authority. In the 35 years I have been a DJ only one venue got a visit from PRS probably 8 or so years ago and all they did was take a note of the music being played. They weren't the least bit concerned where it came from.
Produb has been dead for years and anyone who pays for it is just flushing money down the toilet.
Loads of Djs in my city with karaoke HDDs bought off ebay and cracked VDJ version 7. They play tracks they don't have from a line out on their iPhone or ipad. Nobody cares. Honestly.
I work different hotels and clubs every week and nobody is the least bit concerned about my gear, software or music/video collection.
Its not the job of the police or local authority. In the 35 years I have been a DJ only one venue got a visit from PRS probably 8 or so years ago and all they did was take a note of the music being played. They weren't the least bit concerned where it came from.
Produb has been dead for years and anyone who pays for it is just flushing money down the toilet.
Loads of Djs in my city with karaoke HDDs bought off ebay and cracked VDJ version 7. They play tracks they don't have from a line out on their iPhone or ipad. Nobody cares. Honestly.
I work different hotels and clubs every week and nobody is the least bit concerned about my gear, software or music/video collection.
Posted Sat 09 Mar 19 @ 10:39 am
groovindj
That doesn't give anyone the right to abuse the law though. Just because nobody sees you, or you don't get caught, doesn't justify it / make it right.
Oh I'll just steal that because nobody will know. I'll get away with speeding because there aren't any police around. etc. etc.
Sure it's at your own risk, but if you're running a legal business then you should at least try to be law abiding.
Oh I'll just steal that because nobody will know. I'll get away with speeding because there aren't any police around. etc. etc.
Sure it's at your own risk, but if you're running a legal business then you should at least try to be law abiding.
Posted Sat 09 Mar 19 @ 10:51 am
kradcliffe
I'm not endorsing the use of illegal material in any way (I use extendamix for most tracks myself) but from what I see it seems the guys working legitimately are in the minority.
Posted Sat 09 Mar 19 @ 10:52 am
groovindj
So....if you can't beat 'em, join 'em?
Maybe the fully legal guys are in the minority, but if you're all licensed up etc. then that's a selling point, n'est-ce pas?
You can mention it on your web site, on the phone to clients, tell any venues that hire you. People know about cowboy builders, but perhaps don't consider that DJs could be cowboys too. Let them know! Show them your ProDub license, PLI or whatever. Make them aware of it, then maybe when they recruit someone else, they'll ask to see it.
Maybe the fully legal guys are in the minority, but if you're all licensed up etc. then that's a selling point, n'est-ce pas?
You can mention it on your web site, on the phone to clients, tell any venues that hire you. People know about cowboy builders, but perhaps don't consider that DJs could be cowboys too. Let them know! Show them your ProDub license, PLI or whatever. Make them aware of it, then maybe when they recruit someone else, they'll ask to see it.
Posted Sat 09 Mar 19 @ 11:09 am
kradcliffe
Selling point to who?
In the past three years no venue has asked or been the least bit interested in Produb, PLI or even PAT testing.
Maybe things are different in Englandshire?
In the past three years no venue has asked or been the least bit interested in Produb, PLI or even PAT testing.
Maybe things are different in Englandshire?
Posted Sat 09 Mar 19 @ 11:14 am
VDJ Ron
I got a visit by two guys about a year ago. Management were informed but never told me. One of the guys came over and said don't worry were just checking things. I played legal material. One of them asked for a karaoke (legal) song..he sung well. They went. Whatever. I was the only DJ who worked in the venue who had legal material !
Don't get me wrong..under pressure I will occasionally use illegal material. Everyone expects me to be able to do that and I can if I so wish.
I got asked to produce my pat testing certificates just after Xmas by a hotel but then on the day they never took the trouble to looked at them.
Its all like a big joke.
Don't get me wrong..under pressure I will occasionally use illegal material. Everyone expects me to be able to do that and I can if I so wish.
I got asked to produce my pat testing certificates just after Xmas by a hotel but then on the day they never took the trouble to looked at them.
Its all like a big joke.
Posted Sat 09 Mar 19 @ 11:23 am
groovindj
kradcliffe wrote :
no venue has asked or been the least bit interested in Produb, PLI or even PAT testing.
But does that make it right to run your business without them?
Posted Sat 09 Mar 19 @ 11:31 am
kradcliffe
PLI is a no brainer, assuming you are billing direct and not working through an agent.
MCPS./PRS/PPL licensing isn't a legal requirement. These organisations try to pretend it is but legally if they were to try and prosecute for enforcement it would be in a civil court and it's not worth their time nor effort. I know what they are there for but it's all a bit of a grey area and a money making scam. the venues pay for a public broadcast license so why should it matter where the physical music comes from?
The Produb requirements were really laughable if you read in to them.
PAT testing is also not a legal requirement although some venues do insist on it to play there.
MCPS./PRS/PPL licensing isn't a legal requirement. These organisations try to pretend it is but legally if they were to try and prosecute for enforcement it would be in a civil court and it's not worth their time nor effort. I know what they are there for but it's all a bit of a grey area and a money making scam. the venues pay for a public broadcast license so why should it matter where the physical music comes from?
The Produb requirements were really laughable if you read in to them.
PAT testing is also not a legal requirement although some venues do insist on it to play there.
Posted Sat 09 Mar 19 @ 11:36 am
Don Moir
They probably don't much care about the DJ because not worth prosecuting. Not a legal requirement to have the license, but the club owner needs to have the licenses to legally play the music. Does not matter how the DJ obtained the music so much and more about the owner of the club because they have the money. In the states it's ASCAP, BMI, and a few more.
I would think that the more respectable clubs get the necessary licenses and they leave them alone. If a respectable club does not have a license, probably more prone to be targeted. If that club gets busted, it is probably handled silently because it could hurt the clubs image.
Less respectable clubs may not be targeted as much because it's all about getting the money..
ASCAP: Most businesses must obtain permission to perform copyrighted music. The law requires that public performances of copyrighted music such as live music, karaoke, CDs, MP3 and digital files, background music services and DVDs, require permission obtained either from the copyright owners or from their performing rights licensing organizations.
I would think that the more respectable clubs get the necessary licenses and they leave them alone. If a respectable club does not have a license, probably more prone to be targeted. If that club gets busted, it is probably handled silently because it could hurt the clubs image.
Less respectable clubs may not be targeted as much because it's all about getting the money..
ASCAP: Most businesses must obtain permission to perform copyrighted music. The law requires that public performances of copyrighted music such as live music, karaoke, CDs, MP3 and digital files, background music services and DVDs, require permission obtained either from the copyright owners or from their performing rights licensing organizations.
Posted Sat 09 Mar 19 @ 12:19 pm
VDJ Ron
Some UK venues that don't have a specific license for karaoke advertise such an event as a sing along. This is in addition to a general music license. However I don't know much about what they need.
" the venues pay for a public broadcast license so why should it matter where the physical music comes from? "
That's an interesting point.
" the venues pay for a public broadcast license so why should it matter where the physical music comes from? "
That's an interesting point.
Posted Sat 09 Mar 19 @ 3:46 pm
Don Moir
Doesn't matter where the music comes from... If copy righted music is played in a club by whoever, it is the owner's responsibility to get the licenses and the owner is the one that is liable and has the most to gain or lose.. I figure most well established clubs do this automatic and just another cost of doing business.
It looks like broadcasting for TV or radio is in a different category and with it's own rules.
In the states there 4 main PROs (performing rights organization) ASCAP, BMI, and 2 other main ones. They say the only way to be safe to get a license for all of them. Some artist might use one service and some other artist might use a different service.
ASCAP tried to go after the girl scouts for singing copy righted songs around a camp file...It made most of the major news papers and front page on the Wall Street Journal. ASCAP got a lot of extremely bad press and backed off.
I wonder how far this ban on Karaoke will go? If enough people step up and complain it could make a difference.
I was wanting to do something with Karaoke and started to look into rights and such and ran into this. It appears to me that any video, karaoke, lyrics, or music, that is based on copyrighted material must be sanctioned by one of the PROs for you to even buy it, otherwise it is illegal. But even if you have a legal copy, the club still has to have license for you to play it legally. In the UK and US, you must have permission (sanctioned by one of the PROs) to create CDGs.. Other countries don't abide by this so may be illegal.
Karafun appears to be sanctioned but looks pricey to me. You tell me if that is inline or not.
https://www.karafun.com/pro/subscribe.html
It looks like broadcasting for TV or radio is in a different category and with it's own rules.
In the states there 4 main PROs (performing rights organization) ASCAP, BMI, and 2 other main ones. They say the only way to be safe to get a license for all of them. Some artist might use one service and some other artist might use a different service.
ASCAP tried to go after the girl scouts for singing copy righted songs around a camp file...It made most of the major news papers and front page on the Wall Street Journal. ASCAP got a lot of extremely bad press and backed off.
I wonder how far this ban on Karaoke will go? If enough people step up and complain it could make a difference.
I was wanting to do something with Karaoke and started to look into rights and such and ran into this. It appears to me that any video, karaoke, lyrics, or music, that is based on copyrighted material must be sanctioned by one of the PROs for you to even buy it, otherwise it is illegal. But even if you have a legal copy, the club still has to have license for you to play it legally. In the UK and US, you must have permission (sanctioned by one of the PROs) to create CDGs.. Other countries don't abide by this so may be illegal.
Karafun appears to be sanctioned but looks pricey to me. You tell me if that is inline or not.
https://www.karafun.com/pro/subscribe.html
Posted Sat 09 Mar 19 @ 5:00 pm
wildcountryclub
while I get to skirt the issue and never play karaoke, our sister club next door does... in the U.S. the rules are so much more relaxed compared to what you guys are having to deal with.
there are so many companies online putting out karaoke discs and offering downloads that you can shop for days, but as far as licensing or other restrictions - as long as it's bought legally and ASCAP and BMI get paid we're pretty much golden.
easy solution to karaoke woes Ron - emigrate!
there are so many companies online putting out karaoke discs and offering downloads that you can shop for days, but as far as licensing or other restrictions - as long as it's bought legally and ASCAP and BMI get paid we're pretty much golden.
easy solution to karaoke woes Ron - emigrate!
Posted Sat 09 Mar 19 @ 5:36 pm
kradcliffe
I have never done a karaoke gig. I just avoid them like the plague :)
Posted Sat 09 Mar 19 @ 5:42 pm
wildcountryclub
my flat fee for karaoke is the same as for weddings - $1,000,000
Posted Sat 09 Mar 19 @ 5:51 pm
Don Moir
Yep, just pay them and keep them off your back. Maybe 500 to a 1000 per year... John do you know? I seen where fines could be as high as 150 thousand. I don't believe an individual can buy a license from US PROs... It is up to the business to buy the licenses. If you keep the PRO's happy they probably won't come snooping around and probably don't care how you got the music.
The ban is about karaoke but the licensing part applies to any copyrighted video, music, lyrics, and karaoke.
The ban is about karaoke but the licensing part applies to any copyrighted video, music, lyrics, and karaoke.
Posted Sat 09 Mar 19 @ 5:55 pm
VDJ Ron
I don't quite do karaoke..so if I get a lot of cats and dogs I play music. If the singers are good they get treated like Kings and Queens. Most singers if they have an idea about a song and try can excel. This then creates a show as opposed to a karaoke.
Posted Sat 09 Mar 19 @ 6:01 pm
