Forum: VirtualDJ Technical Support

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Topic: Sync issue - Page: 1
Hi..

Have read through lots of post but haven't found satisfied answer.

Here it Is: playing identical songs and hit sync button but after like 5 seconds sync falls out. What's wrong? I'm using vinyl timecode and song playing is
Royksopp - here she comes.
Had never this issue back in vdj 7 and also Traktor pro.

Posted 7 days ago @ 7:28 pm
First of all, the sync button in VDJ does not keep tracks locked together for ever.

It sets the BPM the same, then aligns the CBG. That's all.

Are you sure the CBG is correctly aligned to the track all the way through?

You mention VDJ 7. Did you actually try the exact same thing in VDJ7, with the same track?

Posted 7 days ago @ 7:39 pm
groovindj wrote :
First of all, the sync button in VDJ does not keep tracks locked together for ever.

It sets the BPM the same, then aligns the CBG. That's all.

Are you sure the CBG is correctly aligned to the track all the way through?

You mention VDJ 7. Did you actually try the exact same thing in VDJ7, with the same track?


Not same song but in vdj 7 you can sync different songs as long as the bpm is somewhere near and it kept going quite long... What is cbg?

Posted 7 days ago @ 7:50 pm
locodogPRO InfinityModeratorMember since 2013
Computer Beat Grid

Posted 7 days ago @ 8:11 pm

btw i find its bpm to be 128.1

Posted 7 days ago @ 8:35 pm
wickedmix wrote :

btw i find its bpm to be 128.1


Maybe I can't explain well enough but if some of you had the chance to try Traktor you'll understand what I meant.

Posted 7 days ago @ 9:12 pm

Posted 7 days ago @ 9:59 pm
wickedmix wrote :
watch this video :-)

http://www.wicked-mix.com/test.mp4


also keep in mind VDJ works different from traktor.


Thanks man...are you using timecode vinyl? Somehow timecode do not stay that stabile. I had denon sc3900 and they where like in your video ( stabile)

Posted 7 days ago @ 10:25 pm
no it was not with time code .. but if you have good turntables you should be able to do this with them as well....you may need to tweak the pitch or nudge it once in a while but hasn't that always been the way with vinyl?


Posted 7 days ago @ 12:42 am
wickedmix wrote :
no it was not with time code .. but if you have good turntables you should be able to do this with them as well....you may need to tweak the pitch or nudge it once in a while but hasn't that always been the way with vinyl?



Using 1210's and also reloop rp 8000 and with different timecodes..doesn't help.

Posted 7 days ago @ 8:08 am
At first you need the be sure that your track has absolutely NO bugs.
Some files have got small bugs due to conversion and all that.
Make sure you have a perfect working file.

At the next step you have to make sure that Beat-Grid of your track is perfectly aligned through out the whole song, from the beginning until the end, even through BPM changes which may appear in the song depending on the production process, conversion, or even artistic freedom.

After that you have to make sure that your settings in VirtualDJ are correct!
Open the config menu --> Move to "options" --> Type "sync" in the upper search bar and read through the settings to match your intentions.
Try the same by typing all "BPM / Sync" related terms. (Align, CBG, Grid, BPM, pitch, speed, etc.)
(Maybe you make a backup of the settings-file before changing it, or do screenshots to remember the old settings if you are not sure)
FAQs: How do I backup my VirtualDJ database and settings?: https://virtualdj.com/wiki/VirtualDJ8_Backup%20Database_.html

Than the sampling rate of your driver has to be the right one.
The most devices work with 44,1 khz or 48 khz.
In VDJ8 this is no problem anymore because the software can handle up to 192 khz and sets it automatically.
But since you have VDJ7 still installed, check the settings of your driver and in VDJ8. (Inside the config-menu --> Options)


Next we have to make sure that the complete sound source (for the timecode) is in good condition:

Beginning from the device itself:
The first Technics 1210 came out in 1972. MK2, which I'm sure you use, first appeared in 1978.
No matter which of the Technics models you use... Their technology is from the previous millennium... So even if you have a refurbished one, errors may come up easily... Take a look on your strobe and on the timecode behavior and timecode settings in VDJ.
Re-check it with timecode CDs, so you know it for sure.

Checking the needle:
In order to have a good timecode signal you should know that your needles have to be as good as possible.
There is no fixed value to make out if a needle is ok or not. Touch it with your fingertip, if you can feel a sharp spike its ok, if its not sharp, change it.
Also check the weight you put on the needle...
If its too light the needle may not stay in its groove...
Too heavy and can't tremble as it should.
Google for the right weight if you don't have the manual anymore, and also google how to set the right weight on your turntable if you don't know it.

Checking the connection:
Use good cables! Not only the ones from your turntables to the sound interface...
Also your USB cable has to be good.
And I'm not meaning expansive cables...
Only ones that are thick enough, no kinks, and have clean(!) connectors.
But the connection does not start at the cables, and not even from the headshell, it starts from your needle.
So make sure that your needle is sitting properly and the headshell has a clean and good connection to the contacts inside your turntables arm. (Clean it with a Q-Tip and a generous amount of Vodka if needed)
(Don't use Jacky or Jägermeister!)

Checking the timecode:
Which you did... Try different ones, both sides, clean vinyls, and take a look how the values behave in VDJ. (Config --> Timecode)
Also you have to test your setting in "clean" (meaning silent) environments if problems occur.
So don't test it in clubs. Subwoofers or other strong noises may affect the timecode-signal through the vinyl and the needle.

Checking the latency:
The latency is the speed which the computer takes to process the sound. No matter if incoming or outgoing, there is and will be latency.
A lot of people tend to minimize the buffer size to get a shorter latency time.
But this causes the computer to have sound dropouts due to the fast processing. So you may hear a good signal, but what your computer hears from the timecode may be something different. Try each buffer sizes between 128 samples up to 512 samples, something of this should work if you have good hardware. And don't be mad if you reach latencies over 10ms... Everything under 20-40ms is barely noticeable.

Checking the system:
Make sure no other software is running in the background that takes much capacities.
Your computer is nothing more than an oversized calculator,
but it can handle only ONE calculation at the same time.
Sure, it does it very fast... But you loose capacities on calculating your sound...
So avoid running other unnecessary software.

So if these points are checked you have to try the stability of the sync with a part of the song that stays the same. And try the same song on both sides and different ones, try every possible variation.
- Do not try it with loops or other stuff (as loops could be timed wrong.)
- Check the pitch on the turntables
- Check the pitch inside the software
- Check the difference between the software & the hardware pitch
- Check the timecode signals behavior an its values
- Check your strobe on the turntable continuously
- Try the stability with other songs
- Make sure all your settings are correct

Also take a look at the FAQs & the WIKI:
https://virtualdj.com/wiki/index.html
https://virtualdj.com/wiki/FAQ.html
There are some helpful articles about optimizing your system and stuff like that.

Take note that there is a BIIIIIIG difference between timecode and controllers.
Compare it with old VHS-Films and BlueRay DVDs if you want, its exactly the same.

Normally the sync in VirtualDJ works more than just fine. And so is the BPM recognition, too.
To be honest I would say it is the best I have seen in the whole industry, so it is not normal that it makes this problems.
Try all this advices and let us know what you found.

Posted 6 days ago @ 4:44 am
Thanks for the deep explanation..

I have bought brand new pickup and needles, New set reloop rp 8000, New timecodes from Traktor and serato, clean install software several times and spend lots of time going through config over and over again. What's left is to buy more expensive rca and usb cable. To be honest I'm not sure it will help. I have started to use Traktor pro more. Using vdj only when I do mix videos. It's a shame cause I really like vdj the way it looks

Edit: No need to quote a post, right before your reply, thank you. AMAHM

Posted 5 days ago @ 9:55 pm
Is this problem appearing on other tracks, too?

The whole thing sounds really weird, but I had some issues with some mp3s in the past, too.
I just deleted and downloaded them again and everything was fine.
If your are sure that you have checked everything correctly and nothing of this helped, I really have no other idea what it could be...

Posted 5 days ago @ 2:37 am
Quick question:
1) Which timecode Vinyl do you use ?
2) Which timecode mode you have selected ?
3) Is it possible to test with a different set of Vinyls ? Especially if you use Traktor Vinyl, can you test with Serato Vinyl or VirtualDJ Vinyl ?

Posted 5 days ago @ 6:45 am
It happens with all songs. I can of course manually pitch adjust but that's not the point.

I tested with Traktor and serato timecodes and with different modes with no luck.

Posted 5 days ago @ 7:30 am
mingern10 wrote :
I can of course manually pitch adjust but that's not the point


Actually it is. It's part and parcel of being a DJ. You should be able to tweak things on the fly. In the days of vinyl, before computers and sync buttons, DJs learned to nudge the platter in various ways to keep the tracks in time.

DJs still do that today. Some will even deliberately avoid connecting things together, so that they can manually adjust and be seen to be doing it that way.

In other words, don't expect the computer to take away your job and do everything for you. It's better if you learn how to keep on top of it without relying on sync.


Posted 5 days ago @ 8:07 am
I can do analog mixing all night long, but again it not the point. When u pay for a product and expects it to work if not just remove the function.

Posted 5 days ago @ 9:12 am
About how many seconds (or how ever we mesure that) are we talking about?
Is it like just a few little nudges or are we talking about a really large amount of beat-difference?

Posted 5 days ago @ 11:52 am
RobRoyPRO InfinitySenior staffMember since 2012
@mingern10:
does this happnes also when you just use the software only without any connected TT´s ?
What Version of VirtualDJ do you keep exactly that causes this issue ?
I just testet without TT´s and it works flawless here with latest build.
Can you assure that your used TT´s dont need to be calibrated and run mechanically 100% in sync ?

Posted 4 days ago @ 12:43 pm
RobRoy wrote :
@mingern10:
does this happnes also when you just use the software only without any connected TT´s ?
What Version of VirtualDJ do you keep exactly that causes this issue ?
I just testet without TT´s and it works flawless here with latest build.
Can you assure that your used TT´s dont need to be calibrated and run mechanically 100% in sync ?


It work flawless without TT's. As mentioned I own a set 1210 which was in service 4 years ago and a set brand new reloop rp 8000. None of these seems to help. I run latest build.

Posted 4 days ago @ 2:10 pm
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