Darnitol
First off, please let me emphasize that I love the flexibility that the current iteration of the skinning SDK provides. That being said, there is no clear guide and I oftentimes find myself frustrated trying to figure out how complex macros will parse out. My suggestion is this - rather than the existing skinning SDK, could the skinning features be migrated to a more web-oriented HTML and javascript setup? I realize that is a huge undertaking, but the benefits could easily outweigh the cost for your users AND devs.
Rather than the list of skin verbs, you could provide a javascript sdk with proper functions/methods to call all of the skinning hooks. Javascript would allow users to create objects, use asynchronous processing, create incredibly long and complicated commands, and generally follow along with most regular javascript tutorials to figure out how things work. Those of us with extensive javascript experience would be an instant asset on the forums to people who need assistance with scripting and skinning instead of having to rely solely on the internal experts at VDJ. Additionally, this might actually be EASIER on devs, as javascript is well-documented, and a built-in part of most OS-level SDKs with web views.
I realize this would be a huge undertaking, but ultimately, I think it could work out REALLY well for all parties concerned. Thanks for reading and, again, thanks for the excellent job you've done on the current iteration.
Rather than the list of skin verbs, you could provide a javascript sdk with proper functions/methods to call all of the skinning hooks. Javascript would allow users to create objects, use asynchronous processing, create incredibly long and complicated commands, and generally follow along with most regular javascript tutorials to figure out how things work. Those of us with extensive javascript experience would be an instant asset on the forums to people who need assistance with scripting and skinning instead of having to rely solely on the internal experts at VDJ. Additionally, this might actually be EASIER on devs, as javascript is well-documented, and a built-in part of most OS-level SDKs with web views.
I realize this would be a huge undertaking, but ultimately, I think it could work out REALLY well for all parties concerned. Thanks for reading and, again, thanks for the excellent job you've done on the current iteration.
Posted Tue 03 Apr 18 @ 1:46 pm
PachN
Are you talking about a skin dev tool based on JS?
Which will spit out the skin.xml to use with VDJ?
Which will spit out the skin.xml to use with VDJ?
Posted Thu 05 Apr 18 @ 8:19 am
Darnitol
Less that and more re-do the skinning engine such that it is no longer based on XML and VDJ script, but rather HTML and javascript (I'll throw in CSS to the mix as well cause if we're pipe-dreaming, why not). When I think of the complicated stuff I could do with regular javascript instead of VDJ script, it makes me start to drool a little, but then again, I use a lot of javascript in my day-job.
I don't think this'll actually happen, but if it did, we could all take skinning to the next level. Imagine if we could use canvas for video effects and display. Imagine the rich graphics we could create, the interactive skins, the animations. Imagine never really needing to consult the devs on the forum for skinning advice because there are literally millions of HTML/JS tutorials on the web. Imagine being able to adjust the entire look and feel of your skin by simply swapping out the CSS file. If you're a programming nerd like me, imagine being able to use orchestration tools like GRUNT/GULP/BOWER/NPM to assist with development. The DOM standard has really matured to a decent application platform. Adding this into the mix with VDJ would allow for customizations I could barely begin to imagine, and immediately open up skinning to a whole host of javascript ninjas.
I started my request the way I did because I truly think that the current iteration is superior to every other DJ program available now, but I could do some REAL magic with JS and a regular HTML/web-style environment.
I don't think this'll actually happen, but if it did, we could all take skinning to the next level. Imagine if we could use canvas for video effects and display. Imagine the rich graphics we could create, the interactive skins, the animations. Imagine never really needing to consult the devs on the forum for skinning advice because there are literally millions of HTML/JS tutorials on the web. Imagine being able to adjust the entire look and feel of your skin by simply swapping out the CSS file. If you're a programming nerd like me, imagine being able to use orchestration tools like GRUNT/GULP/BOWER/NPM to assist with development. The DOM standard has really matured to a decent application platform. Adding this into the mix with VDJ would allow for customizations I could barely begin to imagine, and immediately open up skinning to a whole host of javascript ninjas.
I started my request the way I did because I truly think that the current iteration is superior to every other DJ program available now, but I could do some REAL magic with JS and a regular HTML/web-style environment.
Posted Fri 06 Apr 18 @ 1:54 pm
groovindj
Even with the skinning system as it is now, making or editing skins is beyond most VDJ users - because they're DJs, not programmers.
You want to make it more complex?!
If anything, it needs to be made easier for people to understand, not harder. We do have a great tool by djdad for creating skins, but it is limited (at the moment anyway) by only having a set of pre-existing graphics to choose from.
Thinking out loud now, something like WordPress but for VDJ skins would be pretty cool, but the VDJ skinning method has changed very little over the product lifetime, so I can't see it happening.
You want to make it more complex?!
If anything, it needs to be made easier for people to understand, not harder. We do have a great tool by djdad for creating skins, but it is limited (at the moment anyway) by only having a set of pre-existing graphics to choose from.
Thinking out loud now, something like WordPress but for VDJ skins would be pretty cool, but the VDJ skinning method has changed very little over the product lifetime, so I can't see it happening.
Posted Fri 06 Apr 18 @ 5:19 pm
PachN
I have to agree with Groovin.
It would make the development process much more complicated.
I'm actually a C# developer and just recently started to get used to typescript and angular, node, npm, yeoman for sharepoint framwork and stuff. All of this tool chain and development process is still confusing the hell out of me. Although I do have some knowledge in web development.
Another thing with modern web dev is the the package model with lots of 3rd party code.
As far as I know Atomix they are trying to stick to their own code with as little 3rd party code as possible.
I can see your point, but don't believe that will ever happen.
It would make the development process much more complicated.
I'm actually a C# developer and just recently started to get used to typescript and angular, node, npm, yeoman for sharepoint framwork and stuff. All of this tool chain and development process is still confusing the hell out of me. Although I do have some knowledge in web development.
Another thing with modern web dev is the the package model with lots of 3rd party code.
As far as I know Atomix they are trying to stick to their own code with as little 3rd party code as possible.
I can see your point, but don't believe that will ever happen.
Posted Mon 09 Apr 18 @ 8:23 am