djragman
Hello everyone,
I have the following problem and I don't know, if it is a bug or just impossible :-)))
Using the PC-Version with Build 1996.
One of my videos (Will Smith - Miami) starts with 108.2 BPM and after 2:05 mins. it goes up to 126,6 BPM.
Editing with the BPM-Editor (Beatgrid etc.) works alright and can see all the tempo changes in this window.
But when I go back to the "main screen", the complete track is running at 108,2 BPM in the display, while the gridlines are completely on the correct position.
So mixing is very hard in the last 2 mins. of the track, when pitch is working, because I don't know, what is the right speed at the moment :-)
I don't know, if I explain it right, that you know, what I mean.
Greetz,
Rag
I have the following problem and I don't know, if it is a bug or just impossible :-)))
Using the PC-Version with Build 1996.
One of my videos (Will Smith - Miami) starts with 108.2 BPM and after 2:05 mins. it goes up to 126,6 BPM.
Editing with the BPM-Editor (Beatgrid etc.) works alright and can see all the tempo changes in this window.
But when I go back to the "main screen", the complete track is running at 108,2 BPM in the display, while the gridlines are completely on the correct position.
So mixing is very hard in the last 2 mins. of the track, when pitch is working, because I don't know, what is the right speed at the moment :-)
I don't know, if I explain it right, that you know, what I mean.
Greetz,
Rag
Posted Thu 09 Oct 14 @ 9:36 am
raypitman
Hi Rag,
Your explanation seems pretty clear, I don't want to sound like a PITA but did it also happen in Build 1960? I ask because build 1996 is a Beta build and just want to point you in the right direction.
mfg
Ray
Your explanation seems pretty clear, I don't want to sound like a PITA but did it also happen in Build 1960? I ask because build 1996 is a Beta build and just want to point you in the right direction.
mfg
Ray
Posted Thu 09 Oct 14 @ 10:01 am
locoDog
Not impossible, it just requires some thought (which should have gone into the BPM editor)
What you want to do is use action poi(s) to adjust the reported bpm
You have to work out what works for you but something like this.
Re analyse the track (you'll lose your bpm work, this is intended)
line up the beat grid at the start of the track, so mixing in with this track will work
go to very near the end of the track and find a zero beat grid marker (known as 1 beat in VDJ) (this won't be in line with the music, but trust me)
Add this action poi
set_bpm 85.466% & set_firstbeat
then goto the point where the tempo jumps and set this action poi
set_bpm 117.005% & set_firstbeat
go to a few seconds before the tempo jump and press play, watch what happens, it's like magic.
I'll explain the maths, because for accuracy you'll need to work with a tempo with better resolution than 1 decimal place.
100 / 108.2 * 126.6 = 117.005 so when the tempo jumps it jumps by 17% Hence set_bpm 117.005%
100 / 126.6 * 108.2 = 85.466 so to reset the bpm (back to 108.2) for next time you use the track a poi near the end (beyond the point were sync is a concern) hence set_bpm 85.466%
The set_firstbeat scripts are important to keep everything lined up.
What you want to do is use action poi(s) to adjust the reported bpm
You have to work out what works for you but something like this.
Re analyse the track (you'll lose your bpm work, this is intended)
line up the beat grid at the start of the track, so mixing in with this track will work
go to very near the end of the track and find a zero beat grid marker (known as 1 beat in VDJ) (this won't be in line with the music, but trust me)
Add this action poi
set_bpm 85.466% & set_firstbeat
then goto the point where the tempo jumps and set this action poi
set_bpm 117.005% & set_firstbeat
go to a few seconds before the tempo jump and press play, watch what happens, it's like magic.
I'll explain the maths, because for accuracy you'll need to work with a tempo with better resolution than 1 decimal place.
100 / 108.2 * 126.6 = 117.005 so when the tempo jumps it jumps by 17% Hence set_bpm 117.005%
100 / 126.6 * 108.2 = 85.466 so to reset the bpm (back to 108.2) for next time you use the track a poi near the end (beyond the point were sync is a concern) hence set_bpm 85.466%
The set_firstbeat scripts are important to keep everything lined up.
Posted Thu 09 Oct 14 @ 11:00 am
raypitman
but he is still posting in the wrong forum, or not?
Posted Thu 09 Oct 14 @ 5:18 pm
locoDog
Meh, it could be called a bug or it could be called a missing feature. So long as people don't ask like an arse then the polite thing to do is point them in the right direction.
Posted Fri 10 Oct 14 @ 1:52 am
djragman
@locodog
Thank you for the explaining the action. I will try it and understand that math :-))))
@raypitman
Yes, it happened in 1960, too. Tried it first in it and after that again in the following builds up to 1996.
In my opinion it is a bug :-)
Because I think, that the BPM-Meter should always show the BPM of the moment, which is written in the BPM-Editor.
Thank you for the explaining the action. I will try it and understand that math :-))))
@raypitman
Yes, it happened in 1960, too. Tried it first in it and after that again in the following builds up to 1996.
In my opinion it is a bug :-)
Because I think, that the BPM-Meter should always show the BPM of the moment, which is written in the BPM-Editor.
Posted Fri 10 Oct 14 @ 3:22 am
PachN
To make it more clear.
What djragman is trying to say:
If he is doing some changes in the BPM Editor, like the above adjusting the beatgrid for 108 BPM to 126 BPM, once the track hits that point where BPMs are changing, the BPM Editor will display the now changed BPM of 126 and not 108.
On the other hand, the BPM value on the decks will NOT change and stay at 108.
So I'm with djragman. If the BPM Editor is able to display the correct BPM if BPM are changing during the track, the skin should be able too.
What djragman is trying to say:
If he is doing some changes in the BPM Editor, like the above adjusting the beatgrid for 108 BPM to 126 BPM, once the track hits that point where BPMs are changing, the BPM Editor will display the now changed BPM of 126 and not 108.
On the other hand, the BPM value on the decks will NOT change and stay at 108.
So I'm with djragman. If the BPM Editor is able to display the correct BPM if BPM are changing during the track, the skin should be able too.
Posted Fri 10 Oct 14 @ 6:57 am
Chreece
+1 the BPM display should always show the actual BPMs of the song because that's the number we are looking at when we are trying to mix it...
Posted Fri 10 Oct 14 @ 7:29 am
locoDog
Yeah why not, if 'on skin' bpm was calculated from the distance between the next few grid markers then with an edited grid a live bpm is possible even for gradual temp increases.
But for abrupt changes doing the maths is much less painful,
(if only there was 'temporary POI', that are 'undone' when a track is unloaded to avoid needing a reset poi)
This type of stuff being missing is what makes the editors feel like they were just tacked on.
But for abrupt changes doing the maths is much less painful,
(if only there was 'temporary POI', that are 'undone' when a track is unloaded to avoid needing a reset poi)
This type of stuff being missing is what makes the editors feel like they were just tacked on.
Posted Fri 10 Oct 14 @ 7:32 am
groovindj
Posted Fri 10 Oct 14 @ 12:29 pm
kradcliffe
Another feature BPM Studio had all those years ago. A couple of my mates now use VDJ and miss it.
Posted Fri 10 Oct 14 @ 1:01 pm
locoDog
Options, hmmm. Standard, from grid, totally live.
I can't see totally live being as useful as it sounds (at least for me) but I'd use live to get the numbers needed to change the grid.
Won't totally live fail when it comes to scratching?
I can't see totally live being as useful as it sounds (at least for me) but I'd use live to get the numbers needed to change the grid.
Won't totally live fail when it comes to scratching?
Posted Fri 10 Oct 14 @ 1:20 pm
groovindj
My Denon media players have a live BPM count. Can't say I've paid much attention to what it reads during scratching (not something I do much anyway).
I also have a Red Sound Micro BPM headphone amp/BPM counter that I used to employ pre DJ software, which reads live.
BTW I found a BPM counter plugin (PC & Mac) here
I also have a Red Sound Micro BPM headphone amp/BPM counter that I used to employ pre DJ software, which reads live.
BTW I found a BPM counter plugin (PC & Mac) here
Posted Fri 10 Oct 14 @ 1:33 pm
locoDog
Good find, that should quicken id'ing tempo changes, I use click tracks atm.
Posted Fri 10 Oct 14 @ 5:00 pm
djragman
Problem solved with Build 2013.
An absolutely great thank you to the Devs for the really quick fixing.
An absolutely great thank you to the Devs for the really quick fixing.
Posted Wed 22 Oct 14 @ 8:37 am
groovindj
Yes it works, but it's not really live.
The BPM on the deck only changes if you've edited your track and added new beat grid anchors at the tempo changes & adjusted the beat grid to the new BPM.
IMO it'd be better to have the BPM readout follow tempo variations in the waveform, so you can see if the track needs that additional 'Variable BPM' work doing.
Better still if the beat grid was smarter and followed the variations itself.
The ultimate would be for the waveform to be adjustable so we could correct the variations, as is possible in popular DAW software. It's not been done in DJ software yet, so that would really set VDJ apart. Maybe in VDJ 9 eh? :-)
The BPM on the deck only changes if you've edited your track and added new beat grid anchors at the tempo changes & adjusted the beat grid to the new BPM.
IMO it'd be better to have the BPM readout follow tempo variations in the waveform, so you can see if the track needs that additional 'Variable BPM' work doing.
Better still if the beat grid was smarter and followed the variations itself.
The ultimate would be for the waveform to be adjustable so we could correct the variations, as is possible in popular DAW software. It's not been done in DJ software yet, so that would really set VDJ apart. Maybe in VDJ 9 eh? :-)
Posted Wed 22 Oct 14 @ 1:04 pm