the SOUND INSURGENT
Nice!! Cuts were clean as hell!!
What I'd love to know is how you were doing this with an external mixer??
I've done this with my DJM T1 but it took some fudging of the outputs, so please do tell.
What I'd love to know is how you were doing this with an external mixer??
I've done this with my DJM T1 but it took some fudging of the outputs, so please do tell.
Posted Sun 08 Mar 15 @ 10:06 pm
locoDog
He's modded his Xfader with a Teensy so that when it's sending midi the SA-8 (great mixer, I have 1) thinks the cross fader for audio mixing purposes is @50%.
That crossfader is controlling an artificial software Xfader, Quite a smart work round.
@An you do realise HID will give less latency and a vastly greater resolution than midi's 7 bit?, just look at the HID joystick example I think it's a standard teensy library.
That crossfader is controlling an artificial software Xfader, Quite a smart work round.
@An you do realise HID will give less latency and a vastly greater resolution than midi's 7 bit?, just look at the HID joystick example I think it's a standard teensy library.
Posted Sun 08 Mar 15 @ 10:51 pm
the SOUND INSURGENT
Ok so will his method work with any external mixer??
Posted Sun 08 Mar 15 @ 11:19 pm
andeejay43b
Thanks for your comments!
The fader works exactly as locodog wrote. Also thanks for the suggestion with the USB HID device class. At the moment I send a lot of midi messages (500/sec) and the latency is not recognisable. However, when I tried only to send a message when the fader actually changed it was awful slow. The USB-bulk transfer is obviouly not the best choice, I will consider changing to HID if any problems arise (BTW: The focus fader V2 has physically only 19 detectable positions (at least without very tricky SW), so the 128 possible midi positions are overkill already ;-) ).
The basic idea of this fader mod would be applicable to many old vca controlled mixers. But it involves changing the electronics individually. The best bet to get the mod to an broader "audience" would be to apply the mod to an innofader (research needed...). Still I do not own one...
With the plugin I cannot promise I will post it during the week. But for the weekend that will be done for sure ;-)
The fader works exactly as locodog wrote. Also thanks for the suggestion with the USB HID device class. At the moment I send a lot of midi messages (500/sec) and the latency is not recognisable. However, when I tried only to send a message when the fader actually changed it was awful slow. The USB-bulk transfer is obviouly not the best choice, I will consider changing to HID if any problems arise (BTW: The focus fader V2 has physically only 19 detectable positions (at least without very tricky SW), so the 128 possible midi positions are overkill already ;-) ).
The basic idea of this fader mod would be applicable to many old vca controlled mixers. But it involves changing the electronics individually. The best bet to get the mod to an broader "audience" would be to apply the mod to an innofader (research needed...). Still I do not own one...
With the plugin I cannot promise I will post it during the week. But for the weekend that will be done for sure ;-)
Posted Mon 09 Mar 15 @ 11:54 am
the SOUND INSURGENT
Ok I had a long weekend an I'm still kinda outta of it but if my mixer (Pioneer DJM T1/Pioneer DJM 850) already has a midi crossfader Alls I need is your vst and script, right??
Yours sounded so much cleaner😜
Yours sounded so much cleaner😜
Posted Mon 09 Mar 15 @ 12:02 pm
andeejay43b
As long as the mixer leaves the Fader Control / Mixing entirely to the software it should sound exactly as in my video, yes!
Posted Mon 09 Mar 15 @ 12:24 pm
the SOUND INSURGENT
Nice!!
Ok last question, as far as sound setup goes did you have to do anything different?? I mean did you have to define a master out??
That's what I had to do with my DJM T1 and it works but you can tell the sound is somewhat amplified if that makes sense.
Thanks for the time thus far bro 👌
Ok last question, as far as sound setup goes did you have to do anything different?? I mean did you have to define a master out??
That's what I had to do with my DJM T1 and it works but you can tell the sound is somewhat amplified if that makes sense.
Thanks for the time thus far bro 👌
Posted Mon 09 Mar 15 @ 2:07 pm
andeejay43b
My sound setup in VDJ is plain 2 Deck in (Timecode) / 2 Deck out. No Master out.
I don´t know how the faders are organised in the pioneer mixer. As long as it is possible to set them midi only (i.e. they are not cutting the input sound in midi mode and leave that to external sw entirely) nothing special is needed. I might take a look into the manual of that mixer tommorrow. I was interested how other equipment maps the faders anyway. Stay tuned ;-)
I don´t know how the faders are organised in the pioneer mixer. As long as it is possible to set them midi only (i.e. they are not cutting the input sound in midi mode and leave that to external sw entirely) nothing special is needed. I might take a look into the manual of that mixer tommorrow. I was interested how other equipment maps the faders anyway. Stay tuned ;-)
Posted Mon 09 Mar 15 @ 3:10 pm
andeejay43b
Ok, I looked up the manual for the DJM T1. I´m afraid there is an issue there. If my understanding of the unit is correct, when you set the crossfader in "thru" mode you should be able to use a SW mixer and my plugin will work (unless the crossfader isn´t even telling its position to midi if it is in thru mode).
The problem is, that you will not be able to cue the closed channel from your mixer.
For my own mixer I will just set the fader to analogue mode when not using effects. That is I will use a single button on my dicers to set my crossfader into midi mode, enable the Fader VST Plugin and the particular effect, or undo all three actions. But in your case you can´t map that to a single action, as you have to toggle the CF Mode (Thru/Curve) physically on your mixer. Can you please confirm the crossfader sends midi when in thru mode?
BTW: I can understand the Master out trick does an additional gain, when your cf is open (=channel input + master input). There maybe some other options...
The problem is, that you will not be able to cue the closed channel from your mixer.
For my own mixer I will just set the fader to analogue mode when not using effects. That is I will use a single button on my dicers to set my crossfader into midi mode, enable the Fader VST Plugin and the particular effect, or undo all three actions. But in your case you can´t map that to a single action, as you have to toggle the CF Mode (Thru/Curve) physically on your mixer. Can you please confirm the crossfader sends midi when in thru mode?
BTW: I can understand the Master out trick does an additional gain, when your cf is open (=channel input + master input). There maybe some other options...
Posted Mon 09 Mar 15 @ 6:10 pm
the SOUND INSURGENT
Ok just ran a few quick test with the DJM T1 and even though I can control the software mixer it has no effect on the sound coming out of the mixer, basiclly the hardware mixer over rides the software mixer which kinda makes sense cause it can pass an analog signal and a midi signal at the same time.
Posted Mon 09 Mar 15 @ 6:53 pm
andeejay43b
"basiclly the hardware mixer over rides the software mixer"
even when you set the crossfader to "thru"? According to the manual they said something like, set the cf to thru if you don´t use it.
If it would still be active, that setting would´t make any sense...
This "Thru" mode can be enabled with a switch on your mixer.
even when you set the crossfader to "thru"? According to the manual they said something like, set the cf to thru if you don´t use it.
If it would still be active, that setting would´t make any sense...
This "Thru" mode can be enabled with a switch on your mixer.
Posted Tue 10 Mar 15 @ 6:06 am
groovindj
I think it makes sense.
Setting the hardware CF to "thru" disconnects it from the hardware audio routing, so it's available to use for software - and Huey confirms it does control the software. However, if the software is set to "external mixer" then the software CF is disabled.
So even though the hardware CF can control the software CF, the software CF doesn't do anything when the software mixer is bypassed (audio config = "external mixer").
Setting the hardware CF to "thru" disconnects it from the hardware audio routing, so it's available to use for software - and Huey confirms it does control the software. However, if the software is set to "external mixer" then the software CF is disabled.
So even though the hardware CF can control the software CF, the software CF doesn't do anything when the software mixer is bypassed (audio config = "external mixer").
Posted Tue 10 Mar 15 @ 7:23 am
andeejay43b
My plugin will be ready about tommorrow noon or so. I will do some tests this evening. It´s now a full featured fader - curve, hamster, and rise/fall time.
As expected I can unfortunately only release the sourcecode code of the plugin. If you want to get startet as soon as I release the files you should prepare:
-Download and install Juce C++ libraries: http://www.juce.com/download
-download and unzip the steiberg vst sdk -> go to the developer section of steinberg webpage (AFAIK you have to sign up first, but atm the webpage shows the download links to me without being signed in?!)
-On Windows (Vista/7/8) Download and Install Visual Studio 2013 Express edition (C++ for Windows Desktop)
-I´m afraid MAC is not supported, when stating otherwise I did not realise VST is not supported on mac in VDJ :-(
This plugin is not rocket science, maybe someone will port it or we will see ppfx natively supported ->very soon<- in one of vdj´s next releases?
I posted this so that the interested persons can set up their enviroment already. Compiling the plugin will be 10 mintues of work after that.
As expected I can unfortunately only release the sourcecode code of the plugin. If you want to get startet as soon as I release the files you should prepare:
-Download and install Juce C++ libraries: http://www.juce.com/download
-download and unzip the steiberg vst sdk -> go to the developer section of steinberg webpage (AFAIK you have to sign up first, but atm the webpage shows the download links to me without being signed in?!)
-On Windows (Vista/7/8) Download and Install Visual Studio 2013 Express edition (C++ for Windows Desktop)
-I´m afraid MAC is not supported, when stating otherwise I did not realise VST is not supported on mac in VDJ :-(
This plugin is not rocket science, maybe someone will port it or we will see ppfx natively supported ->very soon<- in one of vdj´s next releases?
I posted this so that the interested persons can set up their enviroment already. Compiling the plugin will be 10 mintues of work after that.
Posted Fri 13 Mar 15 @ 12:11 pm
locoDog
Interested but VSE adds a lot of bloat and processes that a gig machine shouldn't have, Probably a bit over the majority's heads.
(I'm partially literate with c# but it still makes me think dark thoughts about prostitutes and hammers) :-)
I don't understand, why no binaries? there are 1000's of 3rd party VST binaries out there...
Anyway this the next confirmation of proof, so good on ya, the ball is firmly in Atomix's court, just give them time to figure it out for all the HW.
Would you mind sharing your teensy source, or is it a native library? (dropbox it)
(I'm partially literate with c# but it still makes me think dark thoughts about prostitutes and hammers) :-)
I don't understand, why no binaries? there are 1000's of 3rd party VST binaries out there...
Anyway this the next confirmation of proof, so good on ya, the ball is firmly in Atomix's court, just give them time to figure it out for all the HW.
Would you mind sharing your teensy source, or is it a native library? (dropbox it)
Posted Fri 13 Mar 15 @ 2:39 pm
andeejay43b
Yes the non binary thing is really a pitty. The problem is as follows:
Juce is GPL, so my plugin necessarily as well.
If I put the plugin in binary and someone downloads it, he has the right to ask me for all source code in order compile it himself (because of GPL). However I´m not allowed to provide him all source code, because some of it belongs to steinberg. Steinberg does not allow somebody distributing their sourcecode. So I had to choose to violate against GPL or Steinberg :-(
Technically there is of course no reason to have visual studio installed on the machine you use the plugin. The other freeware plugins will either use the Steinberg SDK directly without a GPL framework. Or they just use it and violate the GPL. The GPL / Steinberg incompability is the reason why audacity for example does not come with ASIO support in windows binary (its in the sourcecode but opted out for build process).
More information on this topic:
https://github.com/cabbageaudio/cabbage/issues/5
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=667028
Regarding the Sourcecode of the fader: Yes I can share that as well. However, it is quite hardware dependant. So it must be adopted to be of use. Also I´m not finally done with it, there will come some more. It´s btw. the adafruit Atmega32U4 Breakout-Bord, which is essentially the same as Teensy.
When I´m done with the plugin you can send me a pm. Maybe we find a better soloution, than you have tocompile it yourself ;-)
Juce is GPL, so my plugin necessarily as well.
If I put the plugin in binary and someone downloads it, he has the right to ask me for all source code in order compile it himself (because of GPL). However I´m not allowed to provide him all source code, because some of it belongs to steinberg. Steinberg does not allow somebody distributing their sourcecode. So I had to choose to violate against GPL or Steinberg :-(
Technically there is of course no reason to have visual studio installed on the machine you use the plugin. The other freeware plugins will either use the Steinberg SDK directly without a GPL framework. Or they just use it and violate the GPL. The GPL / Steinberg incompability is the reason why audacity for example does not come with ASIO support in windows binary (its in the sourcecode but opted out for build process).
More information on this topic:
https://github.com/cabbageaudio/cabbage/issues/5
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=667028
Regarding the Sourcecode of the fader: Yes I can share that as well. However, it is quite hardware dependant. So it must be adopted to be of use. Also I´m not finally done with it, there will come some more. It´s btw. the adafruit Atmega32U4 Breakout-Bord, which is essentially the same as Teensy.
When I´m done with the plugin you can send me a pm. Maybe we find a better soloution, than you have tocompile it yourself ;-)
Posted Fri 13 Mar 15 @ 3:05 pm
locoDog
Logical point then bypass juce,
I use the uno R3 Atmega16u2, but I'm not bad at trial & error & error & error
It's coded with the Arduino IDE right? (processing AKA C++ lite)
I use the uno R3 Atmega16u2, but I'm not bad at trial & error & error & error
It's coded with the Arduino IDE right? (processing AKA C++ lite)
Posted Fri 13 Mar 15 @ 3:44 pm
andeejay43b
My crossfader firmware is a plain AVR Studio project.
(Lufa USB Stack + my own C Code forked from the Midi Example of LUFA).
I might be able to upload the plugin in about an hour or so, I only do some tests and figure out some mappings.
If it works content will follow!
(Lufa USB Stack + my own C Code forked from the Midi Example of LUFA).
I might be able to upload the plugin in about an hour or so, I only do some tests and figure out some mappings.
If it works content will follow!
Posted Fri 13 Mar 15 @ 4:53 pm
andeejay43b
Took a brief look at the VDJ Plugin System. Looks straight forward. I will do some tests, if its an easy task to port the plugin I will do so.
Furthermore I asked the author of juce about releasing binary versions of plugins based on his framework. So if I get anything together one way or the other, I will provide binary versions for download.
Furthermore I asked the author of juce about releasing binary versions of plugins based on his framework. So if I get anything together one way or the other, I will provide binary versions for download.
Posted Sat 14 Mar 15 @ 10:14 am
andeejay43b
Meanwhile I have ported the plugin to the VDJ plugin system.
I will submit it to the VDJ plugin section once some people did some (beta) testing and sugestions.
Please leave me a pm and I will send you a download link. I will provide the sourcecode to the plugin in the package, so if you are afraid of accepting someones´ binaries you can still compile it on your own ;-)
I will submit it to the VDJ plugin section once some people did some (beta) testing and sugestions.
Please leave me a pm and I will send you a download link. I will provide the sourcecode to the plugin in the package, so if you are afraid of accepting someones´ binaries you can still compile it on your own ;-)
Posted Mon 16 Mar 15 @ 4:00 pm
the SOUND INSURGENT
Ok so its been a while since Ive seen any chatter on this topic, anything in the works for hardware mixers yet??
Just another DJM T1 because my last one had some messed up buttons so Id like to use it but have post fader fx's if possible.
Just another DJM T1 because my last one had some messed up buttons so Id like to use it but have post fader fx's if possible.
Posted Sun 14 Jun 15 @ 7:07 pm
