djrage-satx
Is THERE any way YOU can add an AUTO-GAIN/ LIMITER OFF settings. So some of use can have our V7 auto-gain feature back for the new V8.
Posted Sat 17 May 14 @ 12:17 pm
groovindj
At THIS point THERE is NO way to TURN the LIMITER off in this NEW verson.
Perhaps if ENOUGH users ask THEN maybe the OPTION will RETURN.
Perhaps if ENOUGH users ask THEN maybe the OPTION will RETURN.
Posted Sat 17 May 14 @ 12:20 pm
Rune (DJ-In-Norway)
should never turn off limiter.. of course..
Limiter doesnt kick in before the signal is too loud and would distort.. So the only sound you are missing is the distorted one, and having a limiter is crucial to prevent that. Makes no sense to turn off , it would be like a feature called AllowDistortion.. ;)
It also applies it in a smooth way, the amount applied differ to the overload of sound level. Even if the limiter in skin should give an occasional red blink with scratch or loud peak, its all good. It just makes sure at that particular peak it wont distort.
Its just when the limiter is on constantly you need to go check your gain levels etc.
Posted Sat 17 May 14 @ 12:25 pm
Rune (DJ-In-Norway)
djrage-satx wrote :
Is THERE any way YOU can add an AUTO-GAIN
So some of user can have our V7 auto-gain feature back for the new V8.
So some of user can have our V7 auto-gain feature back for the new V8.
its on by default ;)
and its in options settings, just search for autogain.. you have the exact same settings there as in v7
Posted Sat 17 May 14 @ 12:28 pm
dj_sergo
I just make my DENON MC 6000 to “Internal Mixing” and all faders up, then you can blow the speakers..
Posted Mon 26 May 14 @ 7:46 pm
marcel3110
Hello,
I am of the opinion that one should have the option of the limiter off or. To switch on. I think that most of us already have a limiter on the hardware side. So either right or out with it!
Also, the auto gain is still very deficient.
Sincerely from Riesa / Germany
I am of the opinion that one should have the option of the limiter off or. To switch on. I think that most of us already have a limiter on the hardware side. So either right or out with it!
Also, the auto gain is still very deficient.
Sincerely from Riesa / Germany
Posted Wed 18 Jun 14 @ 1:59 pm
djmila
marcel3110 wrote :
Hello,
I am of the opinion that one should have the option of the limiter off or. To switch on. I think that most of us already have a limiter on the hardware side. So either right or out with it!
Also, the auto gain is still very deficient.
Sincerely from Riesa / Germany
I am of the opinion that one should have the option of the limiter off or. To switch on. I think that most of us already have a limiter on the hardware side. So either right or out with it!
Also, the auto gain is still very deficient.
Sincerely from Riesa / Germany
Here not problem with HW, but with SW and sound distortion.
Your HW limiter is for protect the amplifier and sound systems.
Posted Wed 18 Jun 14 @ 2:28 pm
Support staff
Without the limiter, the track will distort in software before it reaches any hardware limiter that you might have. Computer sound card output cannot exceed 0dB and attempting to do so will just result in distortion and poorer sound quality.
If the software limiter is triggering excessively and/or you can hear noticeable 'pumping' then your gain and/or EQ in VirtualDJ is too high. Reduce the gain on the track until the limiter only triggers occasionally and there is no noticeable pumping. Your gain correction will be remembered for the next time you play the track in VirtualDJ (Providing you have not disabled this in the options.)
NOTE: Do not try to use the software gain and positive software EQ boost to try to compensate for a sound system that isn't loud enough. Either upgrade your sound system or use a hardware mixer or pre-amp to boost your sound level in hardware. Most hardware mixers have sufficient headroom to boost the sound above 0dB, but doing so excessively could damage your speakers if they are not protected by a hardware limiter.
If the software limiter is triggering excessively and/or you can hear noticeable 'pumping' then your gain and/or EQ in VirtualDJ is too high. Reduce the gain on the track until the limiter only triggers occasionally and there is no noticeable pumping. Your gain correction will be remembered for the next time you play the track in VirtualDJ (Providing you have not disabled this in the options.)
NOTE: Do not try to use the software gain and positive software EQ boost to try to compensate for a sound system that isn't loud enough. Either upgrade your sound system or use a hardware mixer or pre-amp to boost your sound level in hardware. Most hardware mixers have sufficient headroom to boost the sound above 0dB, but doing so excessively could damage your speakers if they are not protected by a hardware limiter.
Posted Thu 19 Jun 14 @ 6:04 am
marcel3110
Hello,
thank you first for the answer, but you can Unignore the limiter at VDJ7. This option should also be possible with VDJ8.
Sincerely yours
thank you first for the answer, but you can Unignore the limiter at VDJ7. This option should also be possible with VDJ8.
Sincerely yours
Posted Thu 19 Jun 14 @ 7:39 am
Support staff
There should never be any reason to turn the limiter off. If the gains of your songs are adjusted correctly and EQ is used correctly, then the limiter will have no effect on the song.
The limiter is only a 'problem' where the gain of a track has not been adjusted correctly or where the user is purposely excessively boosting the gain and/or EQ.
Auto gain may not always be able to correctly set the gain to normalise to 0dB due to the fact that this is an average over the entire track and some songs have greater dynamic range than others. In these cases, you may need to manually adjust the gain appropriately (This is a once off task and by default will be remembered for the next time you play the song.)
I doubt the development team will add an option to disable the limiter because there is no need or benefit. As already stated, digital audio cannot exceed 0dB and you will just have distortion instead. You may or may not be able to hear this in v7 with the limiter off, but it's there.
NOTE: The limiter was a late addition in v7.4, which is why it's an option. In v8, the audio engine was redesigned from scratch and the limiter is a built-in feature as standard.
NOTE: Most other DJ software also has a limiter for the same reasons. Serato DJ's limiter for example cannot be disabled.
The limiter is only a 'problem' where the gain of a track has not been adjusted correctly or where the user is purposely excessively boosting the gain and/or EQ.
Auto gain may not always be able to correctly set the gain to normalise to 0dB due to the fact that this is an average over the entire track and some songs have greater dynamic range than others. In these cases, you may need to manually adjust the gain appropriately (This is a once off task and by default will be remembered for the next time you play the song.)
I doubt the development team will add an option to disable the limiter because there is no need or benefit. As already stated, digital audio cannot exceed 0dB and you will just have distortion instead. You may or may not be able to hear this in v7 with the limiter off, but it's there.
NOTE: The limiter was a late addition in v7.4, which is why it's an option. In v8, the audio engine was redesigned from scratch and the limiter is a built-in feature as standard.
NOTE: Most other DJ software also has a limiter for the same reasons. Serato DJ's limiter for example cannot be disabled.
Posted Thu 19 Jun 14 @ 9:39 am
groovindj
I don't think the complaints are about having the limiter as such (good to have some protection) but about the effect it has on the sound.
It's not exactly subtle or transparent. It's been requested in another thread recently that the release time is increased, because the audio tends to leap up and down in level.
It's not exactly subtle or transparent. It's been requested in another thread recently that the release time is increased, because the audio tends to leap up and down in level.
Posted Thu 19 Jun 14 @ 11:06 am
the SOUND INSURGENT
I just wanna know why VDJ or Atomix thinks they are a better jd then me??
You guys are imposing way to much and then when we ask to turn to off or how to remove it were told tough or we don't know what we're doing.
I have always liked having a choice which you slowly keep taking away........
You guys are imposing way to much and then when we ask to turn to off or how to remove it were told tough or we don't know what we're doing.
I have always liked having a choice which you slowly keep taking away........
Posted Thu 19 Jun 14 @ 11:18 am
wickedmix
I'm really at a loss as to why being forced to make your music sound better and without distortion is a bad thing?
Posted Thu 19 Jun 14 @ 11:32 am
the SOUND INSURGENT
Why take the option away?? Answer that first......
It's obvious to me there is a problem with it as it doesn't come on AT ALL for me with 7 but in 8 I for some reason have to go back and lower almost every single track?? And the kicker here is, I'm using an EXTERNAL mixer! That limiter shouldn't even go on when I'm using that.
It's obvious to me there is a problem with it as it doesn't come on AT ALL for me with 7 but in 8 I for some reason have to go back and lower almost every single track?? And the kicker here is, I'm using an EXTERNAL mixer! That limiter shouldn't even go on when I'm using that.
Posted Thu 19 Jun 14 @ 11:51 am
Support staff
That's the development team's decision and makes sense to maintain the high sound quality of the new sound engine in VirtualDJ. There should never be a need to turn it off if songs have been adjusted correctly and gain/EQ is not used excessively.
You should not be needing to adjust it for almost every single track. If this is the case, then it's possible that incorrect autogain and/or manual gain adjustments have been imported from VirtualDJ v7 or you may be playing songs that have not been analysed yet. If you start a song playing before analysis is complete in v8, then auto gain will not be applied until the next time you load the song to prevent a sudden jump in volume (This is different to VirtualDJ v7 that would apply the adjustment immediately when loading/analysis is complete.) Make sure that you allow the song to load in full before playing it or pre-analyse your music collection (Recommended.) Also, make sure that you have not disabled autogain.
With an external mixer, the limiter will still be applied individually to each deck in VirtualDJ because these could exceed 0dB (= software clipping/distortion) if excessive or incorrect software gain is used (Either due to incorrect autogain or manual adjustment.) In a master/headphones setup, the limiter is also applied to the master output.
You should not be needing to adjust it for almost every single track. If this is the case, then it's possible that incorrect autogain and/or manual gain adjustments have been imported from VirtualDJ v7 or you may be playing songs that have not been analysed yet. If you start a song playing before analysis is complete in v8, then auto gain will not be applied until the next time you load the song to prevent a sudden jump in volume (This is different to VirtualDJ v7 that would apply the adjustment immediately when loading/analysis is complete.) Make sure that you allow the song to load in full before playing it or pre-analyse your music collection (Recommended.) Also, make sure that you have not disabled autogain.
With an external mixer, the limiter will still be applied individually to each deck in VirtualDJ because these could exceed 0dB (= software clipping/distortion) if excessive or incorrect software gain is used (Either due to incorrect autogain or manual adjustment.) In a master/headphones setup, the limiter is also applied to the master output.
Posted Thu 19 Jun 14 @ 12:21 pm
locoDog
The difference of opinion is science versus art.
For atomix it is science playing the music at optimal quality, for dj's it is art, sometimes I (very briefly) want distortion, sometimes I want to crank the gain right up and have the faders low, sometimes I want to make feedback loops with equipment even if the manual says don't, because I know what I'm doing.
For atomix it is science playing the music at optimal quality, for dj's it is art, sometimes I (very briefly) want distortion, sometimes I want to crank the gain right up and have the faders low, sometimes I want to make feedback loops with equipment even if the manual says don't, because I know what I'm doing.
Posted Thu 19 Jun 14 @ 1:10 pm
the SOUND INSURGENT
And that's why I asked, "So now VDJ and Atomix are a better DJ then me now??"
Maybe that's the problem with timecodes also, it's been years and still no fix for the vinyl side. Might as well just say they are no longer supporting timecodes.
Maybe that's the problem with timecodes also, it's been years and still no fix for the vinyl side. Might as well just say they are no longer supporting timecodes.
Posted Thu 19 Jun 14 @ 1:42 pm
bagpuss
As pointed out, the likelihood of hitting the limiter seems quite high with the default settings. You have to get into advanced settings and lower that gain level by 15%-20% to stay in the safe zone.
Posted Thu 19 Jun 14 @ 4:09 pm
locoDog
Or set the limiter to ignore the first 10% of distortion
Posted Thu 19 Jun 14 @ 5:16 pm
dj_kandre
I'm not trying to start a war or a fight or anything like that but simply put this is digital DJing, not analogue. Playing songs on VDJ they should never go above 0db and that's because they weren't made to go do. Now in analog you can mess with that BUT the difference is digital distortion (which is different from regular distortion) is horrible sounding. In my personal experience I've had NO issues at all with the limiter in VDJ and I honestly think that if you want it louder, turn up ur speakers (if they're powered) or your amp if you use one. I use a Versadeck controller which is not a top of the line controller (not junk by any means but def not top of the line) and I run with Mackie SRM 450v2's and my subs and haven't had any sound or volume issues. I've also plugged into a Bose L1 for an event recently as well as a big club/bar house sound system via RCA's into their mixer and again no issues. I'd have to agree that there is not problem with the limiter but maybe some of you that are complaining may be pushing things too hard or need to upgrade or use bigger more powerful gear. Again not trying to start any mess with any one or tell u how to run ur set up, but the master on my controller rarely goes above 2 (sometimes 2.5) for most gigs and not quite 4 for larger club venues and like I said I've never had an issue (and my channel faders are usually around -10 for dinner/cocktail music and between -2 and 0 when it's full go time LOL).
(on a side note, are you guys using premium quality XLR connections? I ask because I once did sound at a wrestling show and I plugged into there little house amp via RCA's and had to really turn my master up, midway through the show I decided to switch out my RCA's for my XLR's and it was night and day, i had to take my master down to about 1, 1 1/2)
(on a side note, are you guys using premium quality XLR connections? I ask because I once did sound at a wrestling show and I plugged into there little house amp via RCA's and had to really turn my master up, midway through the show I decided to switch out my RCA's for my XLR's and it was night and day, i had to take my master down to about 1, 1 1/2)
Posted Thu 19 Jun 14 @ 6:33 pm
