andytaylor125
Just got to say I'm loving the new virtual DJ from the short play I've had with it so far, but I think that the effects controls are lacking if I'm being honest.
Nearly all new controllers come with the standard '3 knobs, 1 encoder and 4 buttons in a row' configuration (or sometimes 4 knobs and 4 buttons in a row) and even with the new float-able effects controls I think it's going to be difficult to control them in a quick, easy and efficient way. In the main skin (not in the dedicated effects control area - which is a great idea by the way for people who want to customise!) I'd love to see it done the way the other 'big 2' DJ softwares do it.
Both Tracktor and Serato are now doing a 2 mode system where either you can have 1 effect with 4 controls or 3 separate effects that all share the encoder to control the effect length (in beats). This works pretty well, and obviously just because they're doing it doesn't mean it's the best way, but to me that seems logical and, most importantly, it works.
Having loads of parameters on the reverb is great for customising the sound, (and the new effects control area is really nice) but I'd like to see a standard wet/dry control on knob 1 for all effects (yes spinback with a wet/dry control might seem strange but it would open up extra possibilities) rather than just 'strength' which only lets you access the 'wet only' sound with a button that is 'all or nothing' so doesn't help very much.
I'd also like to see all effects operating 'post fader' so if you want to do use reverb to end a track before it's actual end you can fade it out smoothly into the reverb (and have the option of bringing it back in again if needed) rather than only having the option of pressing pause on the track and it being an abrupt ending.
And whilst I'm getting technical, just on the off chance they do decide to change some of this stuff, a wet/dry control should increase the volume of the effect up to the 12 o'clock position, then after 12 should decrease the volume of the original track, leaving just the 'wet' audio version playing along (not decreasing the volume of the audio going in to the effect because that would give an 'echo out' which I would suggest is best done on the fader).
I'd also like to see all effects sharing the same timing parameter just like in Serato. Yes it does technically mean less flexibility if you are in the '3 effects at once' mode but that's fine, if you want to get technical, you use the '1 effect with 4 controls' system' or adjust the controls on screen using the mouse in the new effects control area.
Sorry that's a bit of an essay, but I'd really like to see something like this because I think it would make the effects a lot easier to use, both for people with controllers with the '4 in a row' effects controls and people using the mouse, but wouldn't limit people who want to go crazy mapping effects controls or making new skins because the same flexibility is still there. I'm just talking about putting a standard in place so that in all effects knob 1 is a 'full crossfader' wet/dry control, a standard timing control is implemented (could be as simple as saying that knob 2 should always be a timing control) and the default skin is organised to control the effects simply using those 2 different modes that already work successfully in other software. Hope that helps.
Let me know what you think people :-)
Nearly all new controllers come with the standard '3 knobs, 1 encoder and 4 buttons in a row' configuration (or sometimes 4 knobs and 4 buttons in a row) and even with the new float-able effects controls I think it's going to be difficult to control them in a quick, easy and efficient way. In the main skin (not in the dedicated effects control area - which is a great idea by the way for people who want to customise!) I'd love to see it done the way the other 'big 2' DJ softwares do it.
Both Tracktor and Serato are now doing a 2 mode system where either you can have 1 effect with 4 controls or 3 separate effects that all share the encoder to control the effect length (in beats). This works pretty well, and obviously just because they're doing it doesn't mean it's the best way, but to me that seems logical and, most importantly, it works.
Having loads of parameters on the reverb is great for customising the sound, (and the new effects control area is really nice) but I'd like to see a standard wet/dry control on knob 1 for all effects (yes spinback with a wet/dry control might seem strange but it would open up extra possibilities) rather than just 'strength' which only lets you access the 'wet only' sound with a button that is 'all or nothing' so doesn't help very much.
I'd also like to see all effects operating 'post fader' so if you want to do use reverb to end a track before it's actual end you can fade it out smoothly into the reverb (and have the option of bringing it back in again if needed) rather than only having the option of pressing pause on the track and it being an abrupt ending.
And whilst I'm getting technical, just on the off chance they do decide to change some of this stuff, a wet/dry control should increase the volume of the effect up to the 12 o'clock position, then after 12 should decrease the volume of the original track, leaving just the 'wet' audio version playing along (not decreasing the volume of the audio going in to the effect because that would give an 'echo out' which I would suggest is best done on the fader).
I'd also like to see all effects sharing the same timing parameter just like in Serato. Yes it does technically mean less flexibility if you are in the '3 effects at once' mode but that's fine, if you want to get technical, you use the '1 effect with 4 controls' system' or adjust the controls on screen using the mouse in the new effects control area.
Sorry that's a bit of an essay, but I'd really like to see something like this because I think it would make the effects a lot easier to use, both for people with controllers with the '4 in a row' effects controls and people using the mouse, but wouldn't limit people who want to go crazy mapping effects controls or making new skins because the same flexibility is still there. I'm just talking about putting a standard in place so that in all effects knob 1 is a 'full crossfader' wet/dry control, a standard timing control is implemented (could be as simple as saying that knob 2 should always be a timing control) and the default skin is organised to control the effects simply using those 2 different modes that already work successfully in other software. Hope that helps.
Let me know what you think people :-)
Posted Fri 16 May 14 @ 5:09 am
PachN
Well, the SX could handle this two modes.
So it's a mapping thing I think.
So it's a mapping thing I think.
Posted Fri 16 May 14 @ 5:21 am
andytaylor125
Yeah it's one of those things where I could probably sit down for about 20 hours and make it work exactly how I want, design a skin that works like that, find some effects where the timing is counted in beats, map the encoder to all of them at the same time, map one knob to each effect... But the effects still wouldn't be post fader, and I think it would work much better for everyone if there was some sort of standard system and a standard mapping to match the knobs that are on an awful lot of controllers.
Posted Sat 17 May 14 @ 5:52 am
the SOUND INSURGENT
Yup I have to agree. That's the bad part of community driven effects, there's no standard.
Just give me a button to turn it on then an amount knob and a wet/dry knob for everything.........
I doubt they'll ever change it so I'll continue to use my mixers effects.
Just give me a button to turn it on then an amount knob and a wet/dry knob for everything.........
I doubt they'll ever change it so I'll continue to use my mixers effects.
Posted Sat 17 May 14 @ 7:37 am
Djratedxxx919
I agree also, it seems where it leaps in major issues like sound and timecode, its the minor things they have remained elementary. Hopefully they're listening.
Posted Sat 17 May 14 @ 7:47 am
andytaylor125
Yeah I hope they are! Thanks for your input guys, I'm glad I'm not alone. But I guess they will keep telling themselves 'you can map effects any way you want, you can map effects any way you want...' and whilst that's true, trying to get 3 effects mapped so they can all have their timing parameter altered by a single rotary encoder (and for the vdj skin to display that timing value on-screen in beats) would be a hell of an undertaking and would probably involve writing all-new effects. Simply not going to happen for your average DJ.
Even for DJs without a controller with those ''3 knobs in an encoder'' a simple on-screen system like that would still be easy to use.
Even for DJs without a controller with those ''3 knobs in an encoder'' a simple on-screen system like that would still be easy to use.
Posted Mon 09 Jun 14 @ 8:46 am
locoDog
Combining the timing of effects can be done, the only proviso being that all unified dials have to have the same sizes to across the span of the dial.
just initialise the dials to the same setting on ONINT and map them to the dial with '&'s'
The cheaty way I do stuff like that is I just 1/2 or *2 the Bpm.
I agree in principle with the wet/dry idea, I have VST's that cause silence when loading and wet/dry would solve that.
I also think the way to go for effect chaining/ post fader effects would be to have the option to either; 1 exclude channels from the master effects, (cheap work around) or 2 route effects outputs to other channels.
I'm in the process of making my own controller and the biggest headache is the layout design especially for FX, the code isn't that tricky nor is the electronics, it's the freedom of customisation because I can do almost anything but there has to be compromise between functionality and manageable number of dials.
just initialise the dials to the same setting on ONINT and map them to the dial with '&'s'
The cheaty way I do stuff like that is I just 1/2 or *2 the Bpm.
I agree in principle with the wet/dry idea, I have VST's that cause silence when loading and wet/dry would solve that.
I also think the way to go for effect chaining/ post fader effects would be to have the option to either; 1 exclude channels from the master effects, (cheap work around) or 2 route effects outputs to other channels.
I'm in the process of making my own controller and the biggest headache is the layout design especially for FX, the code isn't that tricky nor is the electronics, it's the freedom of customisation because I can do almost anything but there has to be compromise between functionality and manageable number of dials.
Posted Mon 09 Jun 14 @ 10:15 am
andytaylor125
Sounds an interesting project, yeah you're right about getting the compro mise right between controls and ease of use. That's what I think the problem is at the moment, by letting your 'float' the control for each effect you could have a screen full of dials that you hardly ever use, or in your case, a custom made controller with too many knobs on that you can't use easily!
Posted Mon 09 Jun 14 @ 11:03 am
locoDog
Maybe a plugin wrapper could deal with wet/dry & routing, just an idle speculation.
Posted Tue 10 Jun 14 @ 10:57 am