GadgetMan
kradcliffe wrote :
1 - Master volume output is lower than normal. I had to put the Cloud controllers up to 7 instead of 5 to realise the same volume as the A&H mixer.
Same here, that's how I determined how quiet the unit was compared to other nights using the same sound system but with different equipment.
kradcliffe wrote :
2 - Mic quality is really awful and is a deal breaker for me.
Didn't try a line mic, but pretty much expected it to be as you say as I had to turn the gain on the receiver way down to get a non distorted sound.
kradcliffe wrote :
3 - The bass/mid/treble line EQ's are really too powerful. Even a small tweak results in quite a change compared to other mixers.
Didn't experience that. However the club has no EQ on their system so I have to EQ from my side. If the club was setup better I could probably push a bit more volume and the channel EQ's would be for effect only.
kradcliffe wrote :
4 - The cue bug. Really got on my nerves. Not only do 3 and 4 both light up, even with 2 unlit the cue from 2 was still coming through the headphones, and I had to press multiple buttons randomly to turn it off. Not usable at present.
When I loaded a track on deck one the cue would light up but with nothing through the phones. I had to turn off/on to get it to work.
Loading a track on deck two last night only light up cue four. Turning that off and three on solved that problem. PITA though. AA have already acknowledged this, but I think this is the least of their problems.
kradcliffe wrote :
5 - Position of the cue/play/pause buttons. Confused the hell out of me.
Confused me too. All but one of the mistakes I made last night was down to pressing pause not play at the relevant point which subsequently screwed up the mix!
kradcliffe wrote :
6 - LED brightness. Even with the power adapter the LED's aren't bright enough in my opinion. If you are in a bright room or bar they are so dim it's difficult to see what is lit.
Mine seemed ok TBH.
kradcliffe wrote :
7 - General usability. For mixing it was good. Jog wheels are responsive for pitch bend and my mixing overall was very good. Buttons are tactile and the faders are nice and tight.
Agreed. When it works it works well. Still getting my head around smart mode though. If I understand correctly, Shift+Smart turns smart looping on/off so you don't have to press Shift+In and Shift+Out. Confused me that one, but I think I got the hang of it by the end of the night.
kradcliffe wrote :
8 - General sound quality. Good early on, but as the club got busy and I ramped up the output it started to sound a bit muddy, especially on the bass. A couple of times when mixing two dance tracks together I got distortion where it wouldn't have happened going through the Pioneer or A&H mixer. I had the master at 60 & and the line gains about 50 to 60% and it wasn't as clean as it should have been.
Not just me then. That was exactly my settings. And you're right, there was nothing left to 'push' when the club got busy. Sound started to get drowned out by the people.
kradcliffe wrote :
9 - Headphone output. Satisfactory but really affected by the line level and EQ.
Also the pfl kicks in loud and early. You only have to touch the knob and you the main output is very loud.
kradcliffe wrote :
10 - VU meters. Having only one set of meters is a disadvantage. As roy says, it shows the cue rather than the output when mixing.
Seems funny, but this is also a contender for returning the unit along with the poor mic support and low output. AA rep told me the output was comparible to an A&H mixer... Don't think so!
kradcliffe wrote :
Summary: Probably good for pub or mobile DJ's, but in a pro club environment it falls short. The mic quality is very poor which is a real let down. Based on the fact it's an AA product (and not Denon/Pioneer etc.) it's probably OK for the money, but is in no way a professional product for club use, especially if the DJ has to use the mic a lot.
I would disagree, can't se me taking this mobile at the moment. I use the mic sparingly in the club for shouts and last orders, but when mobile I use the mic more - espcially weddings.
My concern is I don't know how much of this they can fix. Firmware will address the cue issue, but I would bet it's the cheap components that cause the mic and output issues. I had high hopes because of the Q-SD mixer I had. I would at least have thought they would have taken the best of what they already had and added the soundcard and MIDI interface. Obviously not.
I'm willing to work with AA to get issues resolved, but unless I get some written guarantee from them that I can return the unit should all attempts to resolve fail, I'm 70% certain it will be gong back very soon.
Cheers,
Roy
Posted Sun 08 Aug 10 @ 3:46 pm
the SOUND INSURGENT
Wow guys this is really bumming me out and I just sold a spare set of turntables to buy 1 of these things. Hmmm.............not sure what to do now.............ughh!!
OK were all Professionals here and I want an HONEST answer here, 1, Should I wait till the 2nd (well in my case probaly the 3rd batch, lol) batch comes out and then buy, in hopes that all this is fixed, or 2, just look for something else altogether??
Thanks for your time
Huey
OK were all Professionals here and I want an HONEST answer here, 1, Should I wait till the 2nd (well in my case probaly the 3rd batch, lol) batch comes out and then buy, in hopes that all this is fixed, or 2, just look for something else altogether??
Thanks for your time
Huey
Posted Sun 08 Aug 10 @ 4:25 pm
kradcliffe
Huey,
Depends what you want vs what you're willing to pay.
I have always bought mid to top end gear from established names (Denon / Pioneer etc.) and had no problems. I'm still using a DJM500 mixer I bought in 1998 which has done many hundreds of gigs and it's still perfect. I have used the Denon HC-4500 controller for over 2 years and they're a great combination.
I suppose the VMS4 is a new product line .... all in one mixer/controller from a budget manufacturer and you do get what you pay for. The VMS4 just feels a bit cheap to me but my expectations may not be the same as someone else's. Given the fact it's not bug free on release, the mis-aligned jog wheels and some people reporting buttons not working doesn't give me that warm feeling I was looking for. Best to try one out and if it's not for you then most companies allow a return within a time period. Just listening to the general sound output on a very good club system tells me it's not Pioneer etc.
Keith
Depends what you want vs what you're willing to pay.
I have always bought mid to top end gear from established names (Denon / Pioneer etc.) and had no problems. I'm still using a DJM500 mixer I bought in 1998 which has done many hundreds of gigs and it's still perfect. I have used the Denon HC-4500 controller for over 2 years and they're a great combination.
I suppose the VMS4 is a new product line .... all in one mixer/controller from a budget manufacturer and you do get what you pay for. The VMS4 just feels a bit cheap to me but my expectations may not be the same as someone else's. Given the fact it's not bug free on release, the mis-aligned jog wheels and some people reporting buttons not working doesn't give me that warm feeling I was looking for. Best to try one out and if it's not for you then most companies allow a return within a time period. Just listening to the general sound output on a very good club system tells me it's not Pioneer etc.
Keith
Posted Sun 08 Aug 10 @ 4:37 pm
GadgetMan
I would definately wait... There's enough of us out there already cutting our teeth on this so that AA can hopefully improve on it.
Roy
Roy
Posted Sun 08 Aug 10 @ 4:45 pm
l_rids
Well that just kicked my intention to buy the vms4 to the side. I was really hoping for it to be a well made product. I think the word "solid" gets confused with quality and the fact that the vms4 is made from metal and heavy does not mean the internal components are good quality.
The unit is $500... I guess you can't expect alot.
Hey beatbreaker... don't you have a nuo4? Whats prompting you to change?
The unit is $500... I guess you can't expect alot.
Hey beatbreaker... don't you have a nuo4? Whats prompting you to change?
Posted Sun 08 Aug 10 @ 4:46 pm
mp3jrick
You guys had anything going on with the touch load button?
I was trying to load my left deck and the right deck jumped ahead 2/3 and acted like a hot cue there after.
Also, are you noticing a voltage pulse in the green play light during play back?
In comparison, I find the audio output pretty normal.
There can be other factors in this when comparing other decks with higher gain pre amp levels, no two are identical in that regard.
Other than that it fit like a glove going into this console.
I now have two panels that can change this back to my last config in minutes.
Need to spend more time with it, thats for sure.
Did not get a user guide with it, so its a little more klunky figuring things out and searching the online pdf.
I was trying to load my left deck and the right deck jumped ahead 2/3 and acted like a hot cue there after.
Also, are you noticing a voltage pulse in the green play light during play back?
In comparison, I find the audio output pretty normal.
There can be other factors in this when comparing other decks with higher gain pre amp levels, no two are identical in that regard.
Other than that it fit like a glove going into this console.
I now have two panels that can change this back to my last config in minutes.
Need to spend more time with it, thats for sure.
Did not get a user guide with it, so its a little more klunky figuring things out and searching the online pdf.
Posted Sun 08 Aug 10 @ 5:29 pm
GadgetMan
User guide was on the CD. Would have liked a hard copy "Getting Started" guide or a CD that auto ran and popped up a readme!
Didn't have the track load issue you had, although I didn't really use the feature. I tried it, but I tend to load tracks in to the playlist before loding them on to a deck so the whole scroll/load setup is pretty useless to me.
I know I can tab between the browser windows and I would prefer just to be able to scroll/load from the current window. This would include the playlist and sidelist. I very rarely load tracks from the file window.
Still had the issue of the effect knob being hyper sensitive, just haven't had a chance to change it yet.
Roy
Didn't have the track load issue you had, although I didn't really use the feature. I tried it, but I tend to load tracks in to the playlist before loding them on to a deck so the whole scroll/load setup is pretty useless to me.
I know I can tab between the browser windows and I would prefer just to be able to scroll/load from the current window. This would include the playlist and sidelist. I very rarely load tracks from the file window.
Still had the issue of the effect knob being hyper sensitive, just haven't had a chance to change it yet.
Roy
Posted Sun 08 Aug 10 @ 5:53 pm
the SOUND INSURGENT
@l rids, yeah I got the NUO4 but thats just a mixer, I have played around and mapped it out so pretty much all I need is that and my laptop. I was just looking at going all digital (I think thats what they call it, lol). Its like this, I love turntables and records and cleaning dirty needles and always looking for that lost 45adaptor, but what I dont like is lugging a HEAVY ass coffin around.........I do alot of little parties and sometimes the tables are just over kill. I was already looking at the NS7 (which is super sexy in my book but ONLY 2 CH.) but then this came along and it HAS 4 CHANNELS and MIDI!! I thought all my dreams had just come true. And when you compare price and features it was hands down, go with the VMS4. So I wait and see what happens........................
Thanks for the info fellas
Huey
Thanks for the info fellas
Huey
Posted Sun 08 Aug 10 @ 5:58 pm
mp3jrick
I just wanted to show you guys how slick this all went together.
The new deck that it sits on is 1/4" black starboard and the lid just fits.
You never know what kind of fit problems you will encounter, but this went in there skin tight all around.
The new deck that it sits on is 1/4" black starboard and the lid just fits.
You never know what kind of fit problems you will encounter, but this went in there skin tight all around.
Posted Sun 08 Aug 10 @ 6:33 pm
GadgetMan
Looks very nice... I'll post a pic from the club on Saturday shortly.
Now we just need to get the damn thing to work properly. Have you used a mic on it yet Rick?
Roy
Now we just need to get the damn thing to work properly. Have you used a mic on it yet Rick?
Roy
Posted Mon 09 Aug 10 @ 3:39 am
GadgetMan
My first night out with the VMS4.
VMS4 in to club system via XLR's
RMX in to channel one of the VMS4 as VDJ backup
CDJ in to channel four as the analog backup
Both RMX and VMS4 were connected to the PC and mapped to VDJ simultaneously. I could have worked from either with the sound coming from the VMS4.
If needed I would have played a track on the CDJ, killed the VMS4 audio on channels two and three and switchd them to analog. Then changed the soundcard in VDJ to the RMX, turned up the fader and continued on that. However that wasn't needed in the end as the VMS4 lasted the night.
Cheers,
Roy
VMS4 in to club system via XLR's
RMX in to channel one of the VMS4 as VDJ backup
CDJ in to channel four as the analog backup
Both RMX and VMS4 were connected to the PC and mapped to VDJ simultaneously. I could have worked from either with the sound coming from the VMS4.
If needed I would have played a track on the CDJ, killed the VMS4 audio on channels two and three and switchd them to analog. Then changed the soundcard in VDJ to the RMX, turned up the fader and continued on that. However that wasn't needed in the end as the VMS4 lasted the night.
Cheers,
Roy
Posted Mon 09 Aug 10 @ 4:42 am
kradcliffe
I tried the mic inputs again last night on my powerful home system, and there's definitely an issue. I had both the VMS and DJM500 Linked in and the difference was very noticeable using the same mic. Whether it's cheap circuitry or just the frequency bands on the VMS mic EQ I don't know, but it seems more on the hardware side rather than something that could be fixed with a FW update. Would be good to hear what other users think.
Posted Mon 09 Aug 10 @ 4:48 am
mp3jrick
Roy
I have not used the mic with it yet, tonight I will try it.
I have not used the mic with it yet, tonight I will try it.
Posted Mon 09 Aug 10 @ 10:26 am
jimspinnin
I am deffinately thinking twice now. I will wait to see what happens...
Posted Mon 09 Aug 10 @ 12:40 pm
Tim Bennett
Disappointing to hear of the poor quality in the audio components. I expected the mapping and control type issues, these can usually be fixed with new/updated code, but cheap hardware is cheap hardware. I'll cancel my order for now and see what the future brings for this unit.
Thanks for sharing your experiences gentlemen; I look forward to future posts as this unit evolves. (hopefully)
Thanks for sharing your experiences gentlemen; I look forward to future posts as this unit evolves. (hopefully)
Posted Mon 09 Aug 10 @ 1:56 pm
kradcliffe
That's the VMS4 packaged up ready to be collected on Wednesday. I try to be fair and objective in my assessment of products, and my summary is that this is a budget controller with a good feature set. Poor hardware let's it down and there quality / assembly issues as well. It's easy to see this controller is made in China. The cue bug will be sorted in time but I feel the overall sound quality and poor mic are hardware based and can't be corrected with an update. I also get the feeling this unit has never been tested in the real world or these issues would have been sorted in the development phase.
I must admit though, it is brilliant with VDJ and seems to be the first fully dedicated controller to support the functions of the software perfectly.
It just doesn't have the quality feel of my Denon controller, but the for the money I'm maybe asking too much?
Keith
I must admit though, it is brilliant with VDJ and seems to be the first fully dedicated controller to support the functions of the software perfectly.
It just doesn't have the quality feel of my Denon controller, but the for the money I'm maybe asking too much?
Keith
Posted Mon 09 Aug 10 @ 3:00 pm
jaakko
I cancelled my order too.. I hope there will be VMS4 MK2 version coming which would fix problems. The concept of VMS4 is very good and fresh, so pity that the quality is bad.
Posted Mon 09 Aug 10 @ 4:10 pm
GadgetMan
Unless AA agree to letting me help them and offer me a full refund if all the fixes fail to work, then mine will also be going back this week as well.
I to like to be fair, like Keith, but at the end of the day I pride myself on the quality of my system. Not just the music, but the mic output has to be second to none as the system is used for wedding speeches as well as making sure I can be heard clearly and not sounding like a train station announcer!!!
Someone (not AA I have to say) has just had the cheek to tell me the low output is VDJ's fault and that a "software tweak" from Atomix will solve the problem. Shows how little they know and I would like to shut this down with some official response/words before you guys get dragged in to the debarcle.
IMO, VDJ is the only part of this package which is rock solid. It works very well with the VMS4 and, although will take a bit of getting used to, I found mixing on it easy and accurate.
Low output and poor quality mics point to cheap components.
Roy
I to like to be fair, like Keith, but at the end of the day I pride myself on the quality of my system. Not just the music, but the mic output has to be second to none as the system is used for wedding speeches as well as making sure I can be heard clearly and not sounding like a train station announcer!!!
Someone (not AA I have to say) has just had the cheek to tell me the low output is VDJ's fault and that a "software tweak" from Atomix will solve the problem. Shows how little they know and I would like to shut this down with some official response/words before you guys get dragged in to the debarcle.
IMO, VDJ is the only part of this package which is rock solid. It works very well with the VMS4 and, although will take a bit of getting used to, I found mixing on it easy and accurate.
Low output and poor quality mics point to cheap components.
Roy
Posted Mon 09 Aug 10 @ 4:25 pm
kradcliffe
That's a fair assessment Roy. If the mic had been better I could have used the unit in the bar, but for the club with the wonderful system in there I really did notice a difference between the VMS4 vs the HC-4500 and A&H mixer.
VDJ is certainly not the issue at all. I have noticed some fanbois of certain German software on the AA forum who are giving VDJ bad press for no reason. Pretty poor IMO
VDJ is certainly not the issue at all. I have noticed some fanbois of certain German software on the AA forum who are giving VDJ bad press for no reason. Pretty poor IMO
Posted Mon 09 Aug 10 @ 4:33 pm
cstoll
GadgetMan wrote :
Someone (not AA I have to say) has just had the cheek to tell me the low output is VDJ's fault and that a "software tweak" from Atomix will solve the problem. Shows how little they know and I would like to shut this down with some official response/words before you guys get dragged in to the debarcle.
There is no debacle and this is not an 'Atomix' response ... this is the response of a technical individual -
How can a software program affect the hardware when the microphone is a direct output to the main output?
And as for the reviews here - I would disagree with the opinion that the unit is worthless.
Is it (fill in the blank with another manufacture name) ? No, it's not. And I have yet to find any one manufacture's product to be the same or identical to each other. They all have their short comings and all have their positives.
As for the several 'All-in-one' units that I have - this is right now my favorite unit and I have used it LIVE - mixing and with a microphone. And the unit I have - has been beat'n good with firmware updates and testing since I did the integration of VirtualDJ. I still believe its a quality unit from American Audio and one of the best products I have worked on from them.
Posted Mon 09 Aug 10 @ 4:41 pm
