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Forum: VirtualDJ 8.1 Technical Support

Topic: Asio driver alternative for Denon MC6000MK2 - Page: 1

This part of topic is old and might contain outdated or incorrect information

I know, like many on this forum, that the right asio driver is essential for latency etc. I had been using the correct Denon driver 1.0.1 and could get about 229 4ms latency on it. However, every now and then, not often, when opening vdj8, it would cause windows 10 to crash. I have now discovered the fender universal asio which is working superbly for me. There's a little less cpu usage, I have it set on 208 4ms latency and no cracks at all, vdj8.1 loads and closes quicker to.

I run Windows 10 Samsung laptop with vdj8.1 and 6gb of ram.

Hope this is useful.
 

Posted Sun 17 Jan 16 @ 9:42 pm
 

Posted Sun 17 Jan 16 @ 9:43 pm
eriedjPRO InfinityMember since 2011
 

Posted Sun 17 Jan 16 @ 10:42 pm
eriedjPRO InfinityMember since 2011
Also for the MC6000mk2, make sure that Master/Headphones are the only 2 options selected for the sound configuration for Virtual DJ 8. Delete the Line In options.
 

Posted Sun 17 Jan 16 @ 10:43 pm
Thanks for reply. Pc is optimised to the max. Seems to work great with the fender adios though.
 

Posted Sun 17 Jan 16 @ 10:46 pm
As I record a radio show i also have a rec and mic option in addition to the master and headphone lines.
 

Posted Sun 17 Jan 16 @ 10:48 pm
eriedj wrote :
Also for the MC6000mk2, make sure that Master/Headphones are the only 2 options selected for the sound configuration for Virtual DJ 8. Delete the Line In options.

Deleting the Line-Ins WILL cause erratic behavior of the controller, at least with it's official ASIO drivers which are "Denon Dj ASIO for Dj Controller"
That's due to a bug on the firmware of the device.
I don't know how "Generic" / "Other" ASIO drivers will work with the unit, but generally speaking these drivers are just an intermediate translator layer between the WASAPI drivers and the software. So, If you don't like the official ASIO drivers I believe you would have better results by just using WASAPI straight away.

Technical stuff:
ASIO drivers like "ASIO4ALL" for instance, are not real ASIO drivers. They are just a translator. They derived from the need to use "consumer" sound interfaces with "PRO" software.
A decade ago (give or take a few years), there were some audio applications (mainly DAW's) that they would require only ASIO drivers in order to work. Average users did not have access to sound interfaces with ASIO drivers. Instead they had access to consumer grade soundcards (like Sound Blaster) that used to use "WDM" drivers.
ASIO4ALL was born in order for these users to be able to use their consumer grade sound interfaces with such applications that didn't support WDM drivers.
The way ASIO4ALL works is simple: It provides an "ASIO driver" endpoint to the application so that it can trick it that it's talking to a device with ASIO drivers and then "ASIO4ALL" talks to the WDM/WASAPI drivers of the device. This means that it adds one more layer on the communication path between the software and the device!
By contrast, real ASIO drivers talk "directly" to the devices they support by bypassing most of the OS communication layers. That's why lower latency can be achieved, and that's why Windows cannot see/use your device while it operates in ASIO mode.
Finally, real ASIO drivers can only work with the devices they know how to handle. They cannot work properly with any other device. It's like printer drivers. Most likely you can have a generic printer driver to print on your printer, but if you really want to take advantage of all of your printer potentials you need to install/use the proper driver.
 

Posted Mon 18 Jan 16 @ 1:48 pm
Phantom Deejay is correct! Just go to the official website for your denon and update firmware and download latest drivers. Also on the driver compatibility make it run as windows 7. Also try 1 ms instead of 4. It should be able to work at 1ms. And try chaning usb cables and usb ports. The better quality your usb is the better sound quality and stability you'll have.
 

Posted Tue 19 Jan 16 @ 12:29 am
Many thanks for ypur great replies. I tried asio for all and couldnt get low latency with out crackling. Got latest 1003 firmware and the 1.0.1 denon drivers of the official page. I jave com optimized through years of experience and looking at forums. Still finding the Fender asios are great and stable. Do need to get better quality usb cable though.
 

Posted Tue 19 Jan 16 @ 12:39 am
eriedjPRO InfinityMember since 2011
I am on my 2nd MC6000mk2 unit (sent the first back for static and BSOD). When I received the 2nd mixer last week, I initially had the sound configuration look like this:

master Denon DJ for Asio Controller (ASIO) mc6000mk2 out 01 & 02
headphones Denon DJ for Asio Controller (ASIO) mc6000mk2 out 03 & 04
line in 1 Denon DJ for Asio Controller (ASIO) mc6000mk2 in 01 & 02
line in 2 Denon DJ for Asio Controller (ASIO) mc6000mk2 in 03 & 04

This configuration also caused static and BSOD'S on the 2nd MC6000mk2 I received last week. When I deleted both line ins, my unit ran smoothly with no issues.
I am using the Denon DJ for ASIO Controller driver 1.0.1. Firmware is updated to v1003. No static, no BSOD's in 2 days of testing and at 2 events this weekend.

The sound configuartion in Virtual DJ 7.4 was only master/headphones for this controller. So, why in Virtual DJ 8.1 are the line ins included?
 

Posted Tue 19 Jan 16 @ 1:40 am
eriedjPRO InfinityMember since 2011
My thanks again to PressNPlay DJ (George) for his help. He logged into my laptop and said the line ins weren't needed. I also applied his Windows 10 tweaks and everything ran flawlessly. Latency is set to 1ms. I had latency set higher (10 or 11ms) and it caused some stuttering of music so I lowered it back to 1ms.
 

Posted Tue 19 Jan 16 @ 1:43 am
Please take a deep breath and read these topics:
http://www.virtualdj.com/forums/186253/Hardware_Technical_Support/Denon_MC6000_mk2_Latency_problems.html
http://www.virtualdj.com/forums/197374/Hardware_Technical_Support/Attention_all_DENON_MC6000MKII_Users.html

I will try to summarize all the info here:

1) When you start VirtualDj (or Serato Intro) the software needs to query the device for some stuff by using some sysex codes. If "Denon Dj ASIO for Dj Controllers" drivers are NOT installed on your system then the queries will fail! For instance on VirtualDj you won't see the volume sliders position of the device get reflected on the skin. Serato Dj Intro goes one step further and FAILS to recognize the device completely!

2) When using "Denon Dj ASIO for Dj Controllers" drivers VirtualDj users experienced HIGH latency issues which were not present with Serato Dj Intro. After some extensive testing it appears that this is due to a bug on the ASIO drivers. For the latency to be low, the software (VirtualDj) must initialize BOTH outputs AND INPUTS of the soundcard. It doesn't matter if it's line-ins or MIC+Record. As long as VirtualDj initializes the inputs, the latency is the same on VirtualDj as with Serato Dj Intro

3) Some users that used the older ASIO drivers from Denon had issues with STATIC NOISE. That's because the older drivers were not designed for this device and it just happens to work with it. However the side effect is this noise which is NOT present with "Denon Dj ASIO for Dj Controllers" drivers

4) If for any reason you don't want to use "Denon Dj ASIO for Dj Controllers" then we strongly suggest that you install the "Denon Dj ASIO for Dj Controllers" drivers, but you use WASAPI drivers on your sound configuration.

5) All generic ASIO drivers work over WASAPI (in other words they use the WASAPI drivers to talk on the device). This means that if you use "Generic ASIO" drivers you will have the same or bigger latency than if you used the device with it's WASAPI drivers in the first place.

6) Not all systems are capable to handle latency lower than 8ms, not matter how strong the CPU is. Setting latency lower than 8ms requires tweaking of your system and making sure it can cope with that. Most of the time it's the Wi-Fi adapter or the display drivers that determine how low the latency can be set on a system. Please take some time to read the articles on these forums on how to tweak your system for low latency playback.

7) Low latency depends on the ASIO drivers themselves as well. What I want to say is that on the same system I can run SX2/SZ on 4ms latency, but MC6000MK2 on 6ms. The fact that one controller can go as low as 4ms on a system doesn't mean that another controller can go as low as well.

I hope these statements clear up the confusion a little bit.
 

Posted Tue 19 Jan 16 @ 3:11 pm
eriedjPRO InfinityMember since 2011
It almost seems like Denon's lack of development on the correct ASIO drivers is intentional so they'll force feed everyone into using Serato. (LOL)
 

Posted Tue 19 Jan 16 @ 5:03 pm
Guys, Cant thank you enough for all these great tips. SO appreciate all your help. Denon 1.0.1 drivers are fine but every now and then i get the driver ddj not equal error and blue screen. Im on windows 10, optimized from all guides. Devices disabled, System mechanic 15 optimized and fully clean for spyware. My errors may be logged at vdj hq as i did leave my wired adapter and internet connection on as i know you can log incidents. i use Gian b 4decks 3 skin with ultra latency on. Dont seem to get cracks at about 208 4ms, im fine with that, its this breakdown bluescreen of the driver every now and then that worries me. Hope you can help.
 

Posted Fri 22 Jan 16 @ 5:45 pm
djxhalxPRO (OEM)Member since 2014
I'm using asio4all v2 with 88 samples (1ms) and 3 kernel buffers - only output selected on asio settings (with inputs vdj stops playback every 1 second), only master and headphones on vdj - no glitches, excelent latency (almost none), works fine without any crashes.

Lenovo z510 with i7, 8gb ram, windows 8.1
 

Posted Sun 07 Feb 16 @ 5:05 pm
djxhalx wrote :
I'm using asio4all v2 with 88 samples (1ms) and 3 kernel buffers - only output selected on asio settings (with inputs vdj stops playback every 1 second), only master and headphones on vdj - no glitches, excelent latency (almost none), works fine without any crashes.

PhantomDeejay wrote :

5) All generic ASIO drivers work over WASAPI (in other words they use the WASAPI drivers to talk on the device). This means that if you use "Generic ASIO" drivers you will have the same or bigger latency than if you used the device with it's WASAPI drivers in the first place.

If you use "ASIO4ALL" then it would be better to not use ASIO at all and use WASAPI drivers directly.

 

Posted Mon 08 Feb 16 @ 7:00 am
djxhalxPRO (OEM)Member since 2014
Wasapi seems slower than my setting (changed to 64samples + 3buffers - works smooth) and fps rate of scratchwave is lower. Weird, but works better.
 

Posted Mon 08 Feb 16 @ 11:26 pm
djxhalxPRO (OEM)Member since 2014
Also using generic Denon drivers 1.0.1 with all outputs and inputs, set on 1ms (88) makes BSOD with 'driver irql not less or equal' - ddjctraud.sys made as a problem.
 

Posted Tue 09 Feb 16 @ 12:38 pm
AdionPRO InfinityCTOMember since 2006
Note that to use wasapi with low latency, you should enable 'exclusiveAudioAccess' option, after which you can set the latency with the 'latency' option. (in samples)
 

Posted Tue 09 Feb 16 @ 1:00 pm
djxhalx wrote :
Also using generic Denon drivers 1.0.1 with all outputs and inputs, set on 1ms (88) makes BSOD with 'driver irql not less or equal' - ddjctraud.sys made as a problem.


1ms ? Seriously ?
You expect your machine to play nice with 1ms latency just like that ? 1ms latency is the 1/1000th of a second.
Even hardware CD-Players have bigger latency around 2-3ms, and I'm not even sure you can actually tell the difference between 1, 2 or 3 ms latency.
1ms latency is more a hypothetical scenario for most systems than a number you can actually achieve.
If you want to be able to set low latency values around 3-5ms you need to tweak your system (no matter how powerful it may be since latency has nothing to do with power) and conduct several tests before you can finally come to a point that you can trust that your system will play nice with those values.
English is not my mother tongue so I can't use the best words/expressions, but 1ms latency it's like asking a Ford Fusion to behave the same as a Porsche 911 GT3RS.
For controllers like MC6000MK2 anything lower than 8ms is sufficient enough for any task you may wish to achieve with it. And values lower than 5ms don't make a real practical difference. The only place latency lower than 8ms matters is scratching. But yet again on this controller with the size of it's jogs I don't think there's anyone who can understand difference between 5ms and 3ms, let alone 1ms!!!
 

Posted Tue 09 Feb 16 @ 3:28 pm
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